WATER COOLED VW EXHAUSTS
========================
Author: JAH@SLC.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Date of original article: Mon Jul 26 15:20 PDT 1993
Subject: Exhausts summary (For the FAQ?)
Editor: jan Vandenbrande (notes in [])
Updates: Added some of New Dimension [ND] notes 1994-06-12.
Added some comparisons between TT and AST [Jan] Oct 95
More edits by [Jan] Oct 95
***Performance Exhausts for water cooled VW's***
Here's the additional research I uncovered.
Starting at the top end (performance wise). In addition to finding out
all I could from the manufacturers, the most info I got was from
various tuning shops. APS, AutoTech (AST), Eurorace, Eurosport,
JT Automotive, New Dimensions, TechTonics (TT) & PlainWrap performance.
Note: alot of these companies were touting one system above all others
in that class. Invariably, it is the system that THEY sell, so
naturally their reviews are going to be biased. The opinions I believe
the most are the ones who don't sell exhaust systems (PlainWrap),
although APS and TechTonics backed their bias pretty well.
Top line performace ( all-out )
===================
Supersprint: Italian made, high quality, but there are compatability
problems that may arise. Great Power benfits, but only if cat is
removed. Power benefits are well diminished with the inclusion of the
cat. Stainless steel (lasts forever). A bit loud (this is subjective),
but a very good reputation. Costs $$$ expensive but I don't know
exact numbers
Borla: I have no additional info. But stainless is always a good way
to go.
Supertrapp: Very popular, especially in autoX and solo. Stainless is
always a good bet. But most find Supertrapp too loud for everyday use.
Single muffler system with an upstream glasspack (I think)
Second Line performance ( not quite all-out )
=======================
[Note: This is in no particular order--jan]
TechTonics: USA made (OR). High quality, popular in autoX. Very decent
power numbers (varies with engine type). Designed for use with cat.
Available with a stainless steel option. Caution, this stainless steel
option is not what it seems. The mufflers are still aluminized, only
the pipes are stainless. Still, a very good system for the money.
Single muffler system with glass-pack. approx $240 USD, $290 USD for
the stainless. Definately louder than stock.
[From ND]: Tectonics system is nothing special, just bent steel pipe
with a cheap muffler. You could have a good muffler shop bend you up
a system. Add a resonator and a turbo muffler from the same manufacturer
they use and you got the same thing.
[Fraom Jan: See my comments under Autotech]
AutoTech Sport Tuning: [Addition by Jan] USA made. I had an opportunity
to compare both a TT exhaust for a 16V Golf 2 (~350US$) and an AST 304SS
exhaust for a Golf 3 (~400US$ in late 95).
The concept for both mufflers were similar:
A set of bent SS tubes, a Dynomax muffler, a bunch of clamps and assorted
hardware.
Where the two differed was:
The TT exhaust had a resonator, the AST did not.
The AST tubes were thicker then the TT tubes (~2.6mm vs ~1.5 mm)
The TT tubes showed some surface rust on the inside.
The ODs were both 5.6 cm, the IDs were ~5.2 cm for AST vs ~5.4 cm on the TT
TT used a Dynomax Ultra Flow 3 1/4 x 7 3/4" #17279 muffler, while AST
used a slightly different model #17277 (not much apparent difference
between the two).
Compare the welds on AST's muffler & tip on the bottom of the pic
with TT bent tube and resonator in: 
The welds on the AST look cleaner.
AST welded their nice chromed tip directly to the Dynomax muffler (which
means that you'll have to cut it off if you ever replace the muffler), while
TT delivered a plane bent tube (I *may* have been missing a part
because I could not figure out how to connect it to the muffler).
The clamps were stock quality (band type) on the AST vs std "U" wire type clamps
on TT's
AST welded the hangers on the tubing (see pic) vs TT who welded some of
the hangers on their clamps.
I don't know whether comparing two exhaust systems is representative
for all their exhaust systems, but AST's system seemed nicer.
Naturally, I could not compare how these two actually performed, compare
them to other exhaust systems out there, how loud they'd be,
how long they actually last and so on.
Gillet: German Made. Very High quality. Designed for European Pro-
Rally, this means it's next to indestructable. Very Good power
benefits (although not the best) with little change in sound at normal
or idle gas. Stainless steel construction INSIDE the mufflers. This is
where most systems suffer the worst corrosion/rust damage, unless you
live where roads are salted in the winter. Complete bolt on two muffler
system plus a baffle pipe between the cat and mid muffler. Nice subtle
round black end pipe (available in dual tip as well). Gillet is an OEM
in Germany, and I believe at some point for US made VW's as well. To
quote almost every source, "You can't go wrong with Gillet".
Cost: between $370 and $420 USD depending on your source. Note: Make
sure when purchasing to get the chain hangers, the Gillet is a HEAVY
system and will break normal exhaust hangers. These are made by VW
motorsport and are available at most tuning shops. They run from $9-15
per, (you'll need three). Also you'll need an adapter depending on
your engine type. Nice deep tone at idle. Nice deep GROWL on the gas.
[From ND]: Very high quality system from Germany with limited fitment as
they have no US offices and are imported by a few companies. No warranty
reconized as only covered by what the few importers will offer. High
priced and worth the money.
Sebring: German Made. VERY HIGH quality, slightly better power than
the Gillet (it is noticeable). Sebring builds for AMG in Germany, they
are also OEM for high end Mercedes and others as well. Solid Stainless
inside and out and costs it too (ouch!). I have no specifics on this
system, but if you've got money to burn, you can't go wrong here. Just
be prepared to spend a lot of $$$$$. You'll never need another system
again.
[From ND]: Very high priced. High quality. Limited fitment as designed for
European models. US offices from importer. Lifetime Warranty
ABT: available through JT automotive only. ABT is a very reputable
high perfomance tuner in germany, and has just started bringing stuff
into the states (I think). Their system is solid stainless inside and
out (big bucks) and will last a very long time. As far as perfomance
goes, one can only assume that it's worth the money, as I was unable
to get any numbers out of the guys at JT. However, they claim that
ABT builds the mufflers, although from all other sources ABT is only a
tuner and has their mufflers built by someone else. Unfortunately, no
one else has tested the system in the states except European Car on
the the ABT GTI. (Maybe someone can write to EC for some more detailed
info). My own opinion: Wait untill it's been in the market longer, and
try to find out more about it. Really Big $$$$ but they look really
slick, dual chrome tip (if that's what you want)
Eurosport: I know nothing about this system, apart from the fact that
it is not stainless and that some people have claimed it's loud.
New Dimension [added by Jan]: They are also in the process of fabricating
exhaust systems. I don't have sufficient feedback about these as yet.
Medium Performance ( simple systems )
==================
ANSA: I don't know too much about this system except that it's not
stainless, it's loud, and little or no power gains are there.
Leistritz: German Made, decent quality. Leistritz is OEM in germany. The
performance system that is sold in the US is simply a single turbo
muffler with a wide fat tail pipe. Non-biased shops have tested it and
claim that there is little performance to be had, just a slight
cosmetic change and a louder buzzy sound. Maybe it does work, but a
number of independent sources refute this. cost: approx $275 USD.
[From ND]: From Germany with US offices to back their 2 year warranty
direct fit for every model of VW. Leistritz is OEM on most German cars
and is one of the best mid priced systems. All systems have 2 year
warranty and come complete with all needed hardware.
Remus [From ND]- Very high priced and questionable fitment and hp gains. I only
have limited experience with their system. [From Jan: I am not sure they
should be categorized under "medium performers". Remus mufflers
are jewels compared to some of the other mufflers, at least on looks.
I don't have enough info on their performance, reliability, etc]
Hor: Unknown manufacturer but is nearly identical to Listritz, cost is
similar too.
Stock: VW OEM stock mufflers are pretty damn good at what they do, and
the lifetime warantee is not bad either. Some would argue that that is
all one needs (yeah right!). A good, but $$$$, bet.
Low End Performance ( Sub-standard systems )
===================
Your choice: Sears, Midas, Meineke... Caveat Emptor. They work, but
that's it. and if you're reading this list, you're probably not
interested in any of these options.
By the way, I got the Gillet.
"...ein sportlich starkes Stuck"
Joshua Hadler
Accelerator Operations
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
jah@slc.slac.stanford.edu
===============================================================================
From: ptong12@ursa.calvin.edu (Peter Tong)
Subject: Re: [W] performance exhaust systems?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 03:51:29 GMT
Organization: Calvin College
In article <1993May4.121329.1@slc.slac.stanford.edu> jah@slc.slac.stanford.edu writes:
>Hey all,
>
> I have an '86 8V GTI, and I've been deliberating on getting a new
>higher performance exhaust system. I've been looking at the Listritz and
>the Gillet. The moment of decision has been thrust on me, my resonator
>muffler decided to croak in the middle of a 700 mile drive (a loud drive),
>and now I need to decide.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions? Recomendations? Cautions?
>
> Here's what I have so far, The Listritz is a single muffler system,
>has a 2 year warrantee, has a nice black oval end pipe, however, I've been
>told, and have heard the Listritz sounding kind of buzzy, like a small
>piece of metal loose in the pipe.
> The Gillet is (by reputation) very well built, is a two muffler
>system, doesn't have a warrantee (at least where I have access to it),
>delivers slightly better power and performance that Listritz, has a plain
>round end pipe, sounds just like stock, BUT, costs a lot more. Now I've
>been told that the Gillet is worth it, but this is from the shop that
>wishes to sell it to me, so I really don't know is this totally unbiased.
>
> Any help would be appreciated, and the sooner the better as I now
>have a VERY LOUD and VIBRATING little GTI.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Joshua Hadler
>jah@slc.slac.stanford.edu
You don't mention how much you wouldn't mind spending on this. Also,
you don't mention how "loud" you want your exhaust to be. How much of
a performance gain do you want? All out, or stock, or somewhere in
between? All out would be something like the supersprint system, borla
or a supertrapp, between there and medium would be gillet, techtonics,
eurosport, medium (performance wise) would be ANSA, Leistritz, then stock.
From what I have heard the Leistritz doesn't have the larger than stock
exhaust pipe diameter (2"o.d.) like techtonics does. ANSA uses stock
diameter tubing and generally just changes the way your car looks and
sounds. When I had the ANSA dual tip system on my 83 GTI it didn't give
hardly any performance gain. What did give a performance gain was a
dynomax muffler with 2" pipe, but it was a bit on the louder side. If you
really want to get a good system, go with stainless steel and you'll
never have to bother with this baloney again. I live in MI and I wish I
could afford it but can't being a student. Techtonics sells complete
cat back exhaust stainless steel systems which in conjunction with their
268 camshaft will up your power to 118bhp@5500 rpm. Borla mufflers are
stainless steel (w/ million mile warantee) and supertrapp sells stainless
steel mufflers as well. I have the supertrapp stainless and it keeps
looking nice from the back because it never gets rusty, but the end cap
does get darker from all the extra carbon I pump out always being on the
gas though! There usually is a tradeoff between noise and flow (power).
Gillet supposedly is relatively quiet at cruise but growls nicely at WOT.
Perhaps a good compromise. ANSA is almost as quiet as stock but barely
noticeable power gains (maybe they have improved lately?). I know I'm
being wordy here but find something that is suited to your idea of a
compromise between power&noise when you are flooring it or accelerating,
while making sure that at freeway speeds at the rpm ranges you run in that
the system is quiet as possible. This gives you good power, but is nice
on the ears for long trips too. Good luck!
Peter
Article 25308 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: ptong12@ursa.calvin.edu (Peter Tong)
Subject: Re: [W] Mufflers... mufflers... mufflers...
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In article soubyran@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Soubyran Richard) writes:
>In article <98290014@misty.ca.boeing.com> glenn@misty.ca.boeing.com (Glenn Cirlincione) writes:
>>My 89 GLI 16v needs a muffler and I am looking for suggestions. So far
>>I have found a $195 muffler that is "bolt on, just like stock". I am
>>basically looking for an easy installation but one that is compatible
>>with the engine. I hesitate to purchase one from Midas, etc but am
>>entertaining all comments.
>>
>Mufflers... mufflers... mufflers...
>
>We can't live without them! Here's some of my thoughts ariences
>about them!
>
>A few months ago... I have decided to follow one of the readers of
>r.a.v. in installing a 944 muffler to my '87 GTi 16v. The mufflerlf
>is exactly the same sive of the stock one. The tail pipe is much
>longer and not in an angle to fit the Golf. As for the pipe that
>goes in the muffler, it has an angle so it doesn't fit perfectly.
Sorry Soubyran! The original porsche pipe that goes into the muffler
does go in with a bend. That is why you have to cut it off with a torch
leaving a small amount sticking out - then you weld the new over-the-axle-
pipe to the porsche muffler - expanding it alittle where it goes into the
porsche muffler then welding it gas tight.
>So the installing was a bit hard to do (I did it myself). If it
>were to be done I would not do it nor recommend it to no one! Sorry
>Peter! It doesn't look too good either... sticks out too much and
>has a bad angle. But it only costed $100 and was fun to do!
>
The angle of the muffler is determined by the bend at the end of the over
the axle pipe - if you make it bend upwards where it enters the muffler then
the muffler angle will be correct. Doing this correctly requires a pipe bending
machine. If you use the original porsche inlet pipe when you cut the pipe you
won't end up with a proper circle to mate the new 2" over the axle pipe to it.
It will be an oval shape and won't mate or seal correctly with clamps over the
long term. The best way is to cut the original pipe as per above and then
correctly weld the properly bent (ie correct angle) new over-the-axle 2" pipe
into the muffler. This should be done at a muffler shop that
has the correct welding equipment and not via clamps which won't seal. Alas
finding a muffler shop that was willing to help me with the install was a pain.
But when they were done they had outdone even themselves and were just as
happy as I was with the results. It took them 3 tries at bending the over
the axle pipe to get it right anglewise meaning lots of labor $$$ but when it
was done it was definitely totally correct with large diameter pipe and no
rattling problems throughout suspension movement. If you know rabbits then
you'll realize that doing this is hard with large diameter pipe without
rattling. Bending a 2.25 -2.5 inch pipe over the axle pipe would be a true
challenge!
>What I was looking for when changing my muffler was looks more than
>anything else. Then came sounds. As far as sounds is concerned, the
>944 is plain! Nothing special. It is starting to be a little louder
>because the fittings are not as tight as I would like it and they
>are becoming loose. Hey! I am no pro and only have rudimentary
>tools! Maybe... just maybe if I were to remove the pre-muffler it
>would be nicer sound wise but I am not yet ready to tackle it. Too
>cold here in Montreal.
I guess my priorities were different in my swap. I wanted a free flowing
muffler that gave me the best power, while not being overly that much louder
than stock. I wanted the quality of the sound to be good not harsh like my
supertrapp. I did the research and came up with the 944 muffler. There's
no way for people on the net to see my car but I'd be willing to bet that
the majority would like the exhaust setup and how it looks. Very nice large
polished silvered porsche tip sticking out with a very large outlet. Sound
wise I like it better than anything I've had on the car including the dynomaxs
and the ANSAs and supertrapp. It's louder than my good friend Ralf's stock 92
golf but he's always mentioning how he too loves the sound and would trade.
One has to realize that the "sound" of the car is determined only partially by
the muffler(s) (size of internal baffles, resonating chambers, etc) and in
general by the engine firing sequence. The unchangeable 1342 sequence of the
VW means the VW will always have that 4 cylinder sound no matter what the
muffler. This holds true also for a 4 cylinder BMW motor. The GM 90 degree
V6s have that strange blat sound due to the firing sequence, and the VW/Audi
5s sound different also due to the firing sequence. My roommates inline 6
81 Supra sounds very nice, but would sound similiar if it was a I-4. An
M3 muffler would be a good choice if it would fit too. But the basic
4 cylinder sound will remain...due to your 4 cylinder engine. Another thing
that seems true from experience is that the 2.0 litre motors sound slightly
deeper at low rpm under load. Don't know why.
>
>For sounds, I was looking for something like the GM cars (big
>growling sound). So in despair, finding nothing, I have tried the
>944. But time has gone by and I am again looking for a new muffler
>myself! The other alternative offered as listed by Peter Tong, was
>to look for an Audi 80/90 muffler. After spotting a couple o
>decided spotted some GM (Corsica, Beretta, SSEi, etc) I have also
I have to retract my suggestion for the older Audi 80/90 mufflers - they seem
not to be of the free flowing variety. Don't go with them - you'd be
better off even with the stock VW mufflers. Not sure if the the newer
Audi 90 V6 mufflers are any better.
>decided not to go for it. So after nosing all those rear ends on
>the road for so long, I came to this: Why not try a Beamer muffler?
>They sure looks nice, specially the '325 is' ones! Double tail
>pipe, angles almost to the perfection for the Golf, good power (the
>325 is a 6 cyl, 2.5 litters). And if I could put my hands on an M3
>muffler... all the better.
>So I'll keep you all posted on my next muffler as soon as the
>weather will put a break on my part of the Earth!
>
I for one would love to hear how the 325 muffler would sound. From looking
under many BMWs I didn't find too many that would fit though. I'd appreciate
a posting on how it goes....as for me I will restate that my current system
is one that I'd recommend for those with the same above priorities as myself.
Powerwise there is only so much to be gained through the exhaust. Sure maybe
1-2 hp more would be achievable but at a much higher and raucous sound level.
HP wise my current system is just as good as my supertrapp was. I'm happy with
it and am not driving around all the time thinking "man I'm not satisfied with
this system". Actually my window is always slightly lowered even in winter
just so that I can listen to the engine exhaust, and induction noises for
entertainment (I have no stereo in my cabby). I don't enjoy the mechanical
lifters until they are warmed up - but once they are warmed up and clearances
are taken up in the engine as a whole its pure music to me! I'll try to post
a GIF of my car sometime. It looks almost exactly like the 2.2 16V cabrio
featured in the last European Car (northern guns article) - that car had an
'84 GTI front spoiler just like mine and the exhaust was Oettinger if I
recall correctly with dual outlets - mine has just one larger outlet at the
same angle. Mine also doesn't have the nice driving lamps but I'm thinking
of fitting that soon in combination with higher power hella bulbs...
>Richard Soubyran
>soubyran@ere.umontreal.ca
>>Thanks in advance.
>>Glenn Cirlincione
>>Internet:glenn@misty.ca.boeing.com
Peter Tong
'82 2.0 8V Cabrio
Article 25351 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: glende20@ticker.wharton.upenn.edu (John Glendenning)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: [W] Mufflers... mufflers... mufflers...
Date: 11 Jan 1994 14:01:47 GMT
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Keith Watson (kwatson@wv.mentorg.com) wrote:
: [ lotsa stuff deleted ... ]
: In the past I've complained about the loudness of the Leistritz 16V muffler
: on my 87 GTI 16V. I finally figured out why it was so loud. My car doesn't
: have a mid-muffler. I don't know where it went but it isn't there. From
: looking at the Techtonics catalog I figured out the solution - add a glass
: pack upstream of the muffler. I'll have one added in the section of pipe
: that parallels the rear axle.
: The dual stainless steel tips look nice, but if I could do it over again
: I would get the Techtonics system from the cat back and spend less money.
I agree. Having bought a Techtonics system for an 83 GTI and a
gillett for an 88 GTI, I don't think that I would spend the money
again for the Gillett. The techtonics system was excellent. It was well
built, and except for the pain of finding the proper downpipe and boring
it for the O2 sensor it was easy to deal with. The Gillett was easy
to install, but was vey heavy and had many clearance problems on my car.
--
John Glendenning
glende20@wharton.upenn.edu
Article 29591 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: Aaron David Jenkins
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: [w] tectonics exhaust story
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 10:17:39 -0400
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Dan
Well, it didn't go smoothly!
The clamp connecting the cat and the intermediate pipe was one big rust ball --
I just sawed it off. Getting the two pipes apart was impossible. Somebody wrote
saying theat they had to pound the cat off and then separate the pipes. I wasn't feeling that adventuresome, so I drove to a local garage. For $25, he took everything off. I drove back to my place, straight exhaust howling.
I fitted the tt exhaust, set the hangers, tightened the bolts, etc. When I started the car, the seal from the cat to the intermediate pipe sucked (exhaust roared out) and when I double checked clearance, I realized that the hangers included with the kit (not sure if RP or tt did that) were not right. The oe hangers are two "8"s and two "0"s; the exhaust came with four "8"s which held the over-the-axle muffler about 1/8" from the bottom of the car *and* pushed the rear of the
intermediate pipe against the heat shielding. Not to mention that it took me half an hour to install two of the "8"s because the space was so tight; the hooks that they mount on a) have less clearance over the top (say 1/8") than the width
of the hanger (1/4"). Plus, the hangers curl inside themselves! I finally got it to work (it took 20 sec. per hanger) by pushing a standard screwdriver blade into the opening in the "8" and forcing the screwdriver into the hook (thereby forcing the "8" into place with a lot more power than I could muster.
Anyway, after the exhaust fitting failed, it gave up and returned to the garage. I had them cut the two "8"s off and reinstall the used "0"s (I later bought new ones that I'll install this week). They also soldered (?) the openings in the exhaust closed.
As for the exhaust itself, I like it. The sound is nice and growly (tho' it dronesif cruising at 65) and power comes on much smoother across most of the rev band. A "hiccup" that used to occur when passing 5000rpm is gone, and revs seem to
come more quickly.
But it doesn't *feel* faster. And everything except the noise is very subtle. So don't expect the world with this bolt-on. But I think it's a good base for future engine mods, and the sound is great.
Aaron
P.S. Whoops, lost a paragraph. Basically, it said that I wasn't pleased to have
to go to a garage and have them seal up the exhaust. Maybe I expected to much,
but I hoped that the clamps would do that. Live and learn!
P.P.S. Hope you all don't get split lines when you read this. I'm using an old email editor from my home.
Article 29671 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: ptong12@ursa.calvin.edu (Peter Tong)
Subject: Re: [w] tectonics exhaust story
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In article <8hbh03q00WB2M3MG57@andrew.cmu.edu> Aaron David Jenkins writes:
>Dan
>
>Well, it didn't go smoothly!
>
>The clamp connecting the cat and the intermediate pipe was one big rust ball --
>I just sawed it off. Getting the two pipes apart was impossible. Somebody wrote
>saying theat they had to pound the cat off and then separate the pipes. I wasn't feeling that adventuresome, so I drove to a local garage. For $25, he took everything off. I drove back to my place, straight exhaust howling.
>
Well, this past weekend (saturday) my german friend and I just installed
a Gillette powersound on his green '92 Golf. 3 muffler system with at least
2.1" pipe diameter. He purchased it from APS. Know that the Gillette kit
APS sells for the Golfs has pipe larger than the cat outlet pipe on the
converter. He paid over $300 for this exhaust and it still wasn't a bolt on!
Not only did we have to weld a insert pipe to fit over the cat outlet pipe
(which by the way is 1.75") so that the VW exhaust pipe joiner (two bolts
that tighten the joiner together to hold the pipes going into it), would
hold the two together but he also had to purchase the joiner from vw at $20.
One of the rear APS clamps also failed to clear the cars body and so had to
spend another $10 for a truck clamp. Needless to say this was a lot of
biking for my friend, and basically used up his saturday.
Other than that its finally on. Sound is slightly louder than stock, but
a bit throatier and high load and low rpm.
However, there is no reason that a $325 exhaust system shouldn't be a bolt
on - considering the price paid for it. APS thankfully credited him $20
for his troubles, but it seemed that even they didn't even know that the
system wouldn't bolt on. I guess it could be VWs fault though because
from '89-'92 VW used different parts on the same cars sometimes with no
pattern whatsoever in many cases. We had thought originally that the
Golf had a 2" exhaust - however, it turns out that his car had a 1 3/4"
exhaust.
Just thought I'd relate this experience.
Peter Tong
'82 2.0 8vCabby
.
Article 33869 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: davida@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (David Akdikmen)
Subject: Re: Corrado G60 exhaust
Message-ID: <1994Jun13.214527.14128@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com>
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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 21:45:27 GMT
Lines: 49
I saw in Euro Mag. EuroSport exhausts for around $180. Letzier (spelling?)
for $290.00. My experience is with the EuroSport Exhaust installed in a
Golf 16v gti '88. It didn't fit right, took me a week to try an get it
on.. I heard that Letzier is OEM and should fit without pipe bending and
knuckle bleeding.
Benifites: More high end power, better milage on high way (went from 29 to 32 MPG)
Problems: Less low end?, Lots more noise.
The Corrado's middle pipe is huge and you will see (hear) a difference
when moving to any performance muffler. Gillet, Letzier, EuroSport.. etc
Curious about your muffler going, I got 53K miles and live in rusty New
England and the darn muffler is still o.k. (Cann't give an excuse to
my wife to change it yet).
previous cars: {'72 SB, '85 gti, '88 16v gti}
still alive: '90 corrado, '88 Saab 9000T.
David
In article <1994Jun10.204503.8865@mixcom.mixcom.com>, Steven Kosloske writes:
|> Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
|> Path: merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com!isunix.cdx.mot.com!mothost!mdisea!mmddvan!vanbc.wimsey.com!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!mixcom.com!Steven.Kosloske
|> From: Steven Kosloske
|> Subject: Corrado G60 exhaust
|> Message-ID: <1994Jun10.204503.8865@mixcom.mixcom.com>
|> Sender: rreerr@mixcom.mixcom.com (Steven Kosloske)
|> Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milw, WI (414) 241-5469
|> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 16:45:03 GMT-0:05
|> Lines: 16
|>
|> I've lot a bit of a noisy exhaust leak on my `90 Corrado. I've found
|> that there are 2 mufflers on this beast, the front one costing $507 from the
|> dealer. I'd like to know what my options are. Do I pay the full price and
|> not eat for a few weeks? Can I get a used/recon modem from a mail order
|> parts shop? Can I get a sport tuned exhaust package that would bypass all
|> of this, cost me $300 (I think you can get G60 exhaust systems for around
|> $300) and get it put on? Is it possible this way overpriced "muffler" is
|> meant to last forever and isn't my problem? Guess I need to jack up my
|> car and find out where the leak is before I panic. But I'd appreciate any
|> help your Corrado driving netters can give me.
|>
|> --
|> (Steve Kosloske) |
|> ------------------------------------| "No man's knowledge here can go
|> I-net: Steven.Kosloske@mixcom.com | beyond his experience." -
|> `90 Corrado G60 (24K) | John Locke
|>
Article 34752 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill)
Subject: Re: [W] Custom exhaust for Corrado G60?
Message-ID:
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References:
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 22:25:31 GMT
Lines: 28
In article jeff_hauman@qmgate.fnal.gov (Jeff Hauman) writes:
>Stainless system, preformance final muffler but no mid-muffler (can't find
>one in S.S).
> My questions are;
>1) Has any one else out there replaced your exhaust system, yet, on the
>90'[G60], how much did it cost you?
APS and others sell the Gillet middle pipe and rear muffler for
$300 for the G-60 Corrados. The Gillet adds 7 hp too. It replaces the
suitcase muffler.
>2) Has any one gotten rid of the mid-muffler on the G60, is it loud,
>recommended?
The Gillet tends to drone around 3000 rpm, I found it annoying
on long highway trips.
>3) Do these prices even sound right?
yes.
>4) What are some names of good S.S. exhaust manufactures, name brands?
See above. I think EuroSport also has something for Corrado G-60's.
Check ads in Euro Car.
> VW Corrado G60 - 4 cylinders & a supercharger is all ya need! ;)
A six is always better.
From lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!hub.cs.jmu.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!liberty!jtatman Tue Mar 15 14:29:23 PST 1994
Article: 28374 of rec.autos.vw
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From: jtatman@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (John M. Tatman)
Subject: Re: [W]Wanted:Exhaust Suggestions
Message-ID: <1994Mar14.023650.15050@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 02:36:50 GMT
References: <1994Mar10.035348.126598@zeus.aix.calpoly.edu>
Organization: Washington & Lee University
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Hi all. I put a TT exhaust on my '85 Scirocco last summer. $155, got
from California to Kentucky in about a week (good service, much more than
I can say about BMVW, I tried to get a used tranny from them. Everyone I
talked to seemed pretty incompetent and I got transfered around at least
five times when my tranny failed to show by over a week special
delivery. It apparently never got shipped and they had the gaul to try
to get the info again and ship another. No thanks.) Anyway, the TT does
LOOK like something a muffler shop could do except for the madrel
bending. The muffler is an el cheapo TURBO II (not more than $15-20 at
any parts store). Maybe the stainless systems have something better?
Overall a nice improvement. Fits well, sounds nice, looks acceptable,
priced well, and comes with HD motor mount (a real bonus). No major hp
improvement (w/o TT downpipe at least) but works well enough to run my G-cam.
MT
From lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!sgiblab!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!calvin!ursa!ptong12 Mon Mar 14 13:25:38 PST 1994
Article: 28245 of rec.autos.vw
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From: ptong12@ursa.calvin.edu (Peter Tong)
Subject: Re: [W]Wanted:Exhaust Suggestions
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Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 21:01:13 GMT
Lines: 94
In article <1994Mar10.035348.126598@zeus.aix.calpoly.edu> ewodzien@harp.aix.calpoly.edu (Ed "The Woz" Wodzienski) writes:
>Well, let's try this again, the first one didn't make it.
>
>Anyway, the 'ol Leitreitz Sport Sound on my '82 Cabby [(C)Peter Tong] :)
>is going bye-bye and I was looking to replace it.
>
>So far I have been considering three models:
> 1) Sport Sound (again) $260
> 2) Hor Technologie (Autotech) $225
> 3) Techtonics Tuning $155
>
>The sport sound is ok but it doesn't appear to offer the performance
>the others do. I called Techtonics and they said that theirs is better
>because it uses mandrel-bent tubing and uses a 2" pipe. He said that
>backpressure didn't matter and that it was a myth. I don't know, however
>European Car highly regards TT, so I guess he knows what he is talking
>about. The muffler looks like a larger version of a stock muffler.
I'm pretty sure that TT uses a Dynomax muffler. You can purchase this
at your local NAPA if you have one for $34-$40. I used both versions of
the hemi muffler (forget the pn). It was very free flowing but louder than
I liked. Also with the custom tubing it resonated at freeway cruising speed.
I got so sick of it I canned it. Perhaps, adding a center resonators (like
on the newer cabbies) would have quieted things down though (techtonics
offers this as an option).
>When I called Autotech, the guy said that theirs was better and that it
>offered more HP. They said that theirs uses 1&7/8" tubing, but their has
>a stainless tip and galavanized body with stainless innerds. Autotech
>said that the TT exhaust was "something any muffler shop could do" and
>that it is considered an economy muffler. Hmm.
** this setup will probably flow a little better down low but become a little
more restrictive up top. Ask them who the OEM for their muffler is! The
best US made aftermarket performance mufflers have been tested to be Borla,
Supertrapp, Flowmaster, Walker Dynomax and Thrush. Of which I've used 2
dynomaxes and a supertrapp.
>So, with all of this in mind, can anybody suggest a muffler they have
>had good luck with?
** porsche 944. I posted on this - just make sure its installed right!
With this muffler correct installation is hard, but if you can do it right
the result is nice. Its relatively quiet as well....nice big tip too.
>Also, I plan on upgrading the cam to a G-Grind and sooner or later a
>revised downpipe/header. Autotech swears by their Tri-Y stating that
>they have been making them for 8 years and they have never seen them
>break. On the other said TT says they last about 8 months, then break.
>Any info here?
Cheapest route, TT cat downpipe, '81 (or any 6 stud manifold with o2 fitting).
BTW, don't be tempted to ever remove the cat - you gain at most 4hp (depends
on the motor), but the car will be alot louder... not to mention a bit dirtier
to the air. Ask them to put their money where their mouth is - a written
8 year guarantee! Another thing you should consider is that headers are
louder - less metal and not cast iron to quiet things down as much.
My recommendation - 2" pipe all the way through. If I have my '82 exhaust
manifold off again any time soon I'm going to blend in the 2 exhaust outlets.
I mean taper them in for slightly better flow. Reason being their is a slight
mismatch where they go together with the downpipe flow wise. Not sure how
much difference this would make. At any rate I can tell you that the 944 &2"
combo is just as good as my supertrapp was with 13 discs and I don't even
have mandrel bent pipes! And yes, the TT really noticeably improves the
midrange - in a good way I don't like it because it makes the top end seem
less torquey. Can you imagine someone coming up with a variable length
exhaust setup for maximum scavenging at every rpm? It would be sweet.
Basically supersprint is the best from what I've heard. Not sure about
Hor, Gillette is very good, Techtonics is very good - another possibility
might be to call up Stillen and ask what muffler they might be able to
supply you with - or Jackson Racing - I think they use Bassani which is
supposedly also very free flowing (on their Honda exhausts). I've heard
both good and bad about techtonics pipe. One guy here in MI said that the
normal pipe rotted out in under a year - that is why he switched to Gillette.
Then again you are out in CA where everything lasts forever (except dashboards)!
Peter Tong
'82 Cabby (C) ;)
BTW, my a friend of mine will be installing a new Leistritz system on his
Golf - it should be interesting seeing what difference it makes.
BTW, I'd love to drive your CBR - over in Asia (Taiwan specifically) there
are quite a few more models available than here in the US. A friend of mine
who went to Cal Berkeley had a Gsx-r 750 pushing just over 100hp. Racing
specs - and the fool had it up to 160 once!
>Thanx,
>Ed
>--
> R 1 3 5 | Ed Wodzienski | Rides:
Article 37266 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: ptong12@ursa.calvin.edu (Peter Tong)
Subject: Re: [W] What's the deal w/AutoTech mufflers?
Message-ID:
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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 02:03:18 GMT
Lines: 74
In article <328nub$9dn@panix2.panix.com> mmarten@panix.com (Marten Liebster) writes:
>I checked out the Exhausts archive in ftp.lap... and it only
>mentioned AutoTech once. There was no description about
>the mufflers, just a mention of the name.
>I am interested in getting their own muffler, not another
>aftermarket system that they sell. It seems (from the
>catalog :) to a decent system.
>It is made of aluminized, 14 gauge and mandrel-bent tubes.
>The best price around (at least that I have seen) compared
>to simular types of mufflers.
>Or should I spring for the extra 10 dollars and get the
>TechTronics Tuning set-up? The catalog gives no information
>on the specifics on the exhaust. :(
>Any one have expirence with them?
>I would appreciate any info/help that can be had as I need
>to get one A.S.A.P. My muffler has rusted through on top and
>the tail pipe has fallen off!
>Thanks for the help!
>Marten
>'87 GTI 8v - 112,000 miles
>Marten M. Liebster Please no flames for spelling,
>mmarten@panix.com I already know I can't spell!!
Not sure where you live - however I don't think I would bother with a standard
TT exhaust if you live in midwest - a friend of mine heavily into GTIs
purchased the TT system and it rusted through in just over a year. He
ended up getting a Gillete which put him back $300 but flowed well, and
had the longevity. BTW, the Gillette exhaust is supposedly made for
Rally racing. Another friend of mine and I installed an A2 Gillette
exhaust system on his Golf. It was very high quality, slightly more
mellow note than stock, but not nearly as sporty as the Porsche 944 muffler.
I think that TT used to use Dynomax mufflers on their older systems, then
switched to some other brand Turbo muffler. Perhaps some newer TT exhaust
owner can look under their car and post what brand it is for you. The
dynomax drones on the freeway - not recommended. This occurred with both
the larger ovaled version and the hemi version that I tried on my car.
Its really hard to know what you'll be pleased with - I tried about 4-5
different systems before I found what I thought to be a good compromise
between a good sporty exhaust note, the best power, and quietness.
Some mufflers give great power - but lousy note ie supertrapp, others have
quirks like raspberries at certain rev bands - a cracking sound when the
pipe hits the natural resonance of the exhaust pipe length and droning at
just the wrong speed - ie 65mph. Another consideration is looks - I
personally like a nice big chromed tip (no not the screw on type :).
If you want to be conservative just go with a TT system (unless you live
in the midwest - then I'd go with the stainless version), or a Eurosport or
Autotech system. ~$155 is not really a bad price considering. If you want
to roll your own system, then I'd go with a Porsche 944 muffler, and get
custom bent pipes, and lathed out flanges to mate to the cat. That's what I
did and I never (well almost never) pay attention to exhaust ads anymore.
If you do this (a later model 16v muffler should work too) then get heavier
exhaust hangers, the 944 muffler is heavy! It will take a very competent
shop to bend the 2" pipe, and clearance the axle without interference during
suspension travel, while giving the muffler the proper angle.
Interestingly enough, how the mixture is set also affects the exhaust note
somewhat - so two people with identical cars/exhausts and the note may
sound different.
There is a good book I'm currently reading that I ordered from Bentley a
week and a half ago - The Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust systems,
quite a good book IMO, explains exhaust theory quite well, not as good an
induction discussion as I'd like but OK.
Hope this helps!
Peter Tong
'82 2.0 8V Cabby 125k on car, 25k on engine
(will be doing brake work, replacing head, replacing tie rod, and steering
rack bushings soon)
Article 37319 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: haku@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Yoshiki Hakutani)
Subject: Re: [W] What's the deal w/AutoTech mufflers?
Message-ID: <1994Aug10.173024.16781@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
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Organization: University of Chicago
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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 17:30:24 GMT
Lines: 19
>Peter Tong writes:
>I think that TT used to use Dynomax mufflers on their older systems, then
>switched to some other brand Turbo muffler. Perhaps some newer TT exhaust
Hi all.... I got my TT exhaust ( yes, in the midwest...I got the
stainless... the muffler is from Maremont Corp in Carol Stream , IL..
a suburb of Chicago... The muffler is a Turbo II, I've seen them at
Pep Boys and such....for my '85 GLI, the model # is 16804...
Since I got the newer '86/87 Dual outlet manifold, downpipe, and freeflow
cat along with the exhaust, I'm quite happy....however, it has only
been through one winter so we'll see about the longevity...I do like the
sound though!!!
Yosh
haku@midway.uchicago.edu
'85 GLi, TT stainless, Tokico Illumina, fun stuff...
Article 38050 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: ptong12@ursa.calvin.edu (Peter Tong)
Subject: Re: Golf 2 Performance Exhausts
Message-ID:
Keywords: Exhaust Performance
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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 16:22:33 GMT
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In article jrsto1@CFS03.cc.monash.edu.au (JASON STONE) writes:
>G'day All (required corny Oz phrase - we don't actually speak like that)
>
>Anyway I recently purchased a Golf 2 GTi which has the 1.8l Digifant 8v motor
>and it only has a single engine/down pipe (pretty crap huh!).
>I have been thinking about replacing the whole exhaust including the manifold
>for a twin downpipe and free flow system. The whole thing is I can't afford
>to plug and play so I am after info on what are the best exhausts.
A good bet is a Jetta GLI exhaust manifold and downpipe.
>I would like to keep it legal i.e. keep the catalytic converter.
>currently looking at ANSA and JETEX systems.
ANSA yech. That was the first performance exhaust I ever tried for my
Rabbit, and didn't change the performance of my '83 GTI at all. Then again
perhaps the A2 systems are better. Don't know about JETEX.
>Would also be looking to get a K&N or similar free flow filter.
>
>Anyone who could give me an estimate on the extra HP I would get from their
>suggested exhaust would be appreciated.
>
>NOTE - I DO NOT WANT AN EXHAUST THAT HAS A CONSTANT DRONING NOISE INSIDE THE
> CABIN. HAD A 2" EXHAUST ON A MK1 GOLF AND AT 3500 TO 4000RPM I WAS
> NEARLY DEAFENED INSIDE - MADE FOR BAD LONG DISTANCE DRIVING WHEN
> INTERSTATE IS 100-120KM/H.
>
>Sorry to shout that but I still want a relatively quiet exhaust.
>Not silent but quiet. I like a really low hum or a rasp as long as it
>doesn't drone excessively.
>Anyway i think i stressed that enough.
>
>Hopefully someone can help me out with prices and what organisations to get
>the stuff from too. I want prices from both America and the UK.
If you want quiet and non restrictive - why don't you go to the VW dealer
and get a new GOLF /// rear muffler, and get custom bent pipe back from the
cat? Supposedly the new stock exhausts are quite unrestrictive yet quiet.
I think they are also 2" pipe as well.
>Jason Stone
>Melb, Australia
>'92 Golf 2 GTi (Yum!), '80 MK1 Golf modified
>'76 Polo (1of4 in Aust), '77 Passat Wagon.
Peter Tong
'82 2.0 8V Cabby
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From MHC@ussu.Ciba.Com Fri Sep 30 05:46 PDT 1994
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 08:45:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "MICHAEL H. CHIN"
Subject: Hello and Some VW TidBits for the FAQs
> The TechTonics stainless steel exhaust is great. I didn't get use to the
sound in the beginning, and I wound up with headaches. Now it's not bad
or maybe I'm deaf. It's great and it sure turns heads. I just need to
figure out where I'm going to do next in terms of blueprinting my engine.
BTW: Andy King at R+A had given Darrell at tt some input in designing the
the system. (So he says.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ENG.COMPARTMENT # 105 Date: 09-16-94, 13:00
Left by: THE GUARDIAN Replied # 103
Sent to: KEVIN NOVELLI Status: Public
Topic: Exhausts Rcvd: 09-18-94, 06:54
I put a leistritz on my golf III and it sounds great. I had bought a
used Euro sport exhaust froma friend real cheap and I installed it and I
didn't like the sound it made at all.. it was very loud and wasn't
pleasing at all. The euro sport seems to be the same as the techtonics
as it has the same muffler same mandrel bends and same diameter and
resonator.
Everyone I speak to says that the leistritz is your best bet in all
areas over the euro sports/techtonics.. The people around here call them
cheap pipes with a cheap jc whitney 27$ muffler on it. Now I personally
don't know about power but Leistritz told me between 4-6 HP more and the
techtonics said +4 and euro sport +6 but I wuld reccomend the leistritz
to anyone because of its ease in instalation, very nice sound and great
looking tail pipe. I guess it does come down to personal taste I just
wonder to myself how much actual power differences theer is between the
leistritz and techtonics.. if anyone knows please let me know.
Thanks
From eafg034@ea.oac.uci.edu Tue Oct 18 13:59 PDT 1994
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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 13:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Deanna Westra
Subject: FYI: EuroSport exhaust comments from fellow G60 owner (fwd)
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
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From:mspivak@hyperdesk.com
Subject: FYI: EuroSport exhaust comments from fellow G60 owner
>Hi John,
>
>I am contemplating the installation of the new exhaust (from cat back).
>Have you had any fitment problems with the EuroSport exhaust?
>Any vibration from it? (It took me a while to get the stock exhaust vibration
>free with new rubber hangers).
>
>Finally, what does the system sound like (loud?)?
>
>I would appreciate any comments from you.
>
>Thanks a lot,
>Marat
The exhaust is very throaty at idle, and doesn't sound any louder
from inside the car than the stock system, I like it. The quality is ok, all
the pipes fit fine, and all clamps and hangers were included. I have had
terrible problems with both G-60's I have owned with getting the exhaust not
to bang around when accelerating and going over bumps. Aftermarket exhausts
usually fix this since they eliminate the huge "suitcase" resonator. At $199
I feel this was a worthwhile purchase.
John
From eafg034@ea.oac.uci.edu Wed Oct 19 13:41 PDT 1994
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Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:19:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Deanna Westra
Subject: Re: FYI- EuroSport exhaust c (fwd)
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
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From: Jeff Hauman
Subject: Re: FYI- EuroSport exhaust c
Is the EuroSport Exhaust Stainless Steel, and available throught mail order?
thanks,
Jeff
>Finally, what does the system sound like (loud?)?
>
The exhaust is very throaty at idle, and doesn't sound any louder
from inside the car than the stock system, I like it. The quality is ok, all
the pipes fit fine, and all clamps and hangers were included. I have had
terrible problems with both G-60's I have owned with getting the exhaust not
to bang around when accelerating and going over bumps. Aftermarket exhausts
usually fix this since they eliminate the huge "suitcase" resonator. At $199
I feel this was a worthwhile purchase.
John
From eafg034@ea.oac.uci.edu Thu Oct 20 11:08 PDT 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 11:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Deanna Westra
Subject: Re[2]: FYI- EuroSport exhaust c (fwd)
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From:mspivak@hyperdesk.com
Subject: Re[2]: FYI- EuroSport exhaust c (fwd)
Don't think it's stainless steel.
Should be available directly from EuroSport, or reseller
via mail order.
By the way, just got off the phone with MAAS Auto Parts.
It turns out they carry a direct exhaust replacement (non-performance)
for the G60 (from cat to back). The suit case is from Bosal,
made by Fono (Spain); the rear is also Bosal, made in Belguim (so
did MAAS claim). The mid muffler is $250, while the rear is $185.
All necessary pipes are included.
I am definitely goig to consider this for my car.
Marat.
'90 G60
Article 22542 of rec.autos.vw:
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Subject: Re: Free-Flow Exhausts
Message-ID: <1994Oct20.085544.11760@ccc.amdahl.com>
From: scl10@eng.amdahl.com (WeaselsRippedMyFlesh)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:55:44 GMT
Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com (UTS Tech Support)
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In article <383aa1$jmj@acmey.gatech.edu>, gt7460c@prism.gatech.edu (Brad Sheridan) writes:
|> In article <381ljt$3kv@andromeda.rutgers.edu> deniseo@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Denise Odonnell) writes:
|> >oharab@vccsouth03.its.rpi.edu (Brian Timothy O'Hara) writes:
|>
|> >>something that has a good raspy or throaty sound to it. I have looked at the
|> >>Hor Technologie, the Liestritz, and the Reamus, although I have only heard the
|> >>Liestritz in real life. Does anybody have any suggestions on exhausts?
|>
|> > Other choices worth considering are:
|> > - Techtonics Aluminized Steel/Stainless Steel system
|> > - SuperSprint
|> > - Supertrapp
|> > - Gillet PowerSound
|>
|> The Supertrapp doesn't have a deep sound to it. My friends have likened mine
|> to a go cart at times. I like the way it sounds, but I like the way a Borla
|> sounds even better and am considering getting one. Supertrapps are very
|> good considering if you're on a tight budget, and I think they sound better
|> than many of the other brands available.
When I went to a new exhaust system, the guys down at New Dimensions that did
the work (along with a new 2.0L and a rebuilt tranny with a Quaiffe box)
weren't excited about SuperTrapp mufflers on VW's, indicating that you
couldn't get the full range of power out of them. (note: I *wanted* a
SuperTrapp, because I liked the way they sounded, but New Dimensions talked
me out of it.) I opted for a Borla stainless system, and am *extremely*
happy with not only the sound, but the power range (had a Liestritz
previously). They're pricey, but well worth it, IMHO, and will probably
outlast the car!
|>
|> Brad
|>
|>
|> --
|> SHERIDAN,BRAD
|> Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
|> uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt7460c
|> Internet: gt7460c@prism.gatech.edu
--
Steve Lafond (scl10@eng.amdahl.com)
All opinions expressed are mine, NOT Amdahl's.
Support your local SPRINT CAR/MIDGET organization, America's "grass roots" of racing!
KEEP YOUR WHEELS DOWN!
Article 22635 of rec.autos.vw:
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Free-Flow Exhausts
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From: martyn@cl.compulink.com (martyn - using tin)
Date: 21 Oct 1994 11:17:44 GMT
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Brad Sheridan (gt7460c@prism.gatech.edu) wrote:
: In article <381ljt$3kv@andromeda.rutgers.edu> deniseo@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Denise Odonnell) writes:
: >oharab@vccsouth03.its.rpi.edu (Brian Timothy O'Hara) writes:
: >>something that has a good raspy or throaty sound to it. I have looked at the
: >>Hor Technologie, the Liestritz, and the Reamus, although I have only heard the
: >>Liestritz in real life. Does anybody have any suggestions on exhausts?
MK> I have found that Dynomax mufflers sound overly loud in a bad way.
Kinda like a heavy smoker coughing up phlegm.
I don't know if you want to order from Canada, but I replaced my rusty
muff with a Devil stainless rear box from GTA a company in Quebec who
advertise in Euro..Car. It was a bitch to fit, because GTA are stupid and
sell an ill fitting Leistritz middle pipe to replace the main muffler,
which needs to have 1 side necked up in diameter.
BUT...with the US dollar so high in comparison, you can get a REALLY nice
staiiiinless box for a good deal. The Borla may be stainless, but have
you ever seen their exhaust tips....oohhhh ugly. Definitely designed for
a GMC Pickup. Where the DEvil, is a thing of beauty, on par with Sebring,
but much less expensive.
Martyn Kerluk
'91 GTI 16v
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Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 17:59:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Alex Lewin
Subject: [W] aftermarket exhaust for G60: SUMMARY
To: "rec.autos.vw" ,
Corrado List
Cc: "Robert E. Leger" ,
John Hamill , jdr40@juts.ccc.amdahl.com,
Jan Vandenbrande , Andy ,
"Steven M. Kosloske"
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Status: RO
Thanks to all who responded.
Here's what I heard:
One fellow said his wife's G-60 has the Euro Sport exhaust. Loud at
idle, powerful sound, same level of sound at highway speeds as stock.
Another has a GLI with a Techtnoics exhaust and exhaust manifold, and
said it was "great", and that he was "very impressed". Same sound
level as stock on highway. Would buy it again.
Another suggested that I check the FAQ, call New Dimensions, Euro
Sport and Ron Wood/VW Specialties.
One has had a Leistritz on his GTI for 3 years in Nova Scotia with no
signs of rust, and will definitely get it for his Corrado when the
suitcase muffler goes. Says it revs more freely at high RPM than
stock. If I may quote: "The sound changes from a little kitty purring
to a big mean cat purring waiting to be given some more throttle."
New Dimensions said that they had dealt with Techtonics a long time
ago, but that they were not impressed with the stuff TT had done for
the A1 VWs. They recommended the Leistritz.
Rapid Parts had the best price I could find on the Leistritz: $289.95.
APS sells a Gillet package which consists of two resonators. It
replaces the stock stuff from the cat back to the front of the rear
muffler. $299. I have decided against this, because my rear muffler is
already four years old, and will need to be replaced soon, so I might
as well take care of it now.
Haven't got in touch with Ron Wood/VW Specialties yet--they're only
open Tuesday through Friday.
Talked to a guy at Euro Sport. Their system is 14 guage mandrel-bent
aluminized steel (same as TT), one resonator and a Walker Dynamax
muffler (same as TT), $195.00 (same as TT). The guy said it was a bit
noisier than stock. Said it made an extra 7 HP, mostly at high revs. I
run an AutoThority Stage II kit--don't know how that will affect the 7
HP number. He says their VR6 system uses the Walker UltraFlow muffler,
which is all-stainless. The muffler alone costs $130 and has a
lifetime warranty (!).
Which brings me to Techtonics. The prices they advertise are $195 for
aluminized steel and $285 for stainless. This system includes a
Dynamax muffler and one resonator, more or less the same as Euro
Sport. Here are some "noise" numbers the guy gave me.
Quoted sound pressure levels (dB at 25 feet)
idle 2500 rpm 5500 rpm
stock 52 60 80
one-resonator TT 63 64 79
It isn't quite so simple though. They offer the all-stainless
UltraFlow muffler (same as EuroSport) and an extra resonator "a la
carte":
aluminized stainless
base price $195 $285
+ 2nd resonator $ 40 $ 60
+ UltraFlow $ 60 $ 60
------------------------------------------------------
"loaded" $295 $405
shipping is $20 UPS ground
Sooo...an "all-out" Techtonics system, which would consist of
stainless pipes, a second resonator and the killer rear muffler, would
cost $405 plus $20 UPS ground.
This is no longer an inexpensive aftermarket exhaust!
I am baffled (ahem) and don't know how to proceed.
I could get the Euro Sport or "base" TT, for ~$200. I could get the
two-resonator UltraFlow aluminized TT or the Leistritz for ~$300. Or I
could get the TT with "the works" for ~$400. I think if TT didn't
offer so many options, I would have just bought the stupid thing and
been done with it! (Seriously.)
Anyone with suggestions, please suggest them to me!
Hope this info is intersting to someone....
Alex
lewin@vgi.com
'90 G60 APE Stage II with holes in the suitcase
From eafg034@ea.oac.uci.edu Wed Dec 14 21:32 PST 1994
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Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 21:24:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Deanna Westra
Subject: Re: [W] aftermarket exhaust (fwd)
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
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From: Alex Lewin
Subject: Re: [W] aftermarket exhaust (fwd)
Hi Jeff,
Definitely let us know if you find out anything more....
I've found out a couple more things since I sent the below.
Talked to Ron Wood/VW Speicalties. They said the Gillet sounds close to
stock, makes better power and winds up being cheaper! Liked the
Techtonics, didn't like the Leistritz, said the Euro Sport fit really
well, was good quality but was not too quiet. Also told me that
Autotech made a stainless centerpipe-back system with a stainless muffler
for $250. My heart leapt!
So I called Autotech and discovered that indeed, it was too good to be
true. The $250 would get you just a very very fancy rear muffler, with
nothing to take the place of the center muffler. Alas.
> Good work on the research! I would go with the Stainless system, the last
> one you'll ever have to buy! My 90' G60 is facing the same dilema. A local
My muffler's holding together for now. I'm leaning toward Techtonics with
"the works", but I think I need something to push me over the edge before
I cough up big bucks. The thought that it'll be the last exhaust I ever
buy for this car is some consolation.
> custom exhaust guy quoted me ~$800 to bend up the pipes and create a custom
> stainless exhaust.
Was he going to seal it with tiger bone powder or something?
I've heard that makes the car go much faster.
;-)
> Can you e-mail me the phone #s of the places you called.
> I've got some further qustions.
sure
I got all the numbers from EC, except Ron Wood, which I got from the FAQ.
I think they're all in the FAQ. I'll just mail you that.
Alex
> --------------------------------------
> Date: 12/12/94 6:55 PM
> To: Jeff Hauman
> >From: Deanna Westra
> Received: by QMGate.FNAL.GOV with SMTP;12 Dec 1994 18:51:11 -0600
> Received: by taurus.oac.uci.edu id AA26760
> (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for jeff_hauman@qmgate.fnal.gov); Mon, 12 Dec 1994
> 16:40:12 -0800
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 16:40:11 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Deanna Westra
> Subject: [W] aftermarket exhaust for G60: SUMMARY (fwd)
> Message-Id:
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 17:59:54 -0500 (EST)
> >From: Alex Lewin
> Subject: [W] aftermarket exhaust for G60: SUMMARY
>
> Thanks to all who responded.
>
> Here's what I heard:
>
> One fellow said his wife's G-60 has the Euro Sport exhaust. Loud at
> idle, powerful sound, same level of sound at highway speeds as stock.
>
> Another has a GLI with a Techtnoics exhaust and exhaust manifold, and
> said it was "great", and that he was "very impressed". Same sound
> level as stock on highway. Would buy it again.
>
> Another suggested that I check the FAQ, call New Dimensions, Euro
> Sport and Ron Wood/VW Specialties.
>
> One has had a Leistritz on his GTI for 3 years in Nova Scotia with no
> signs of rust, and will definitely get it for his Corrado when the
> suitcase muffler goes. Says it revs more freely at high RPM than
> stock. If I may quote: "The sound changes from a little kitty purring
> to a big mean cat purring waiting to be given some more throttle."
>
> New Dimensions said that they had dealt with Techtonics a long time
> ago, but that they were not impressed with the stuff TT had done for
> the A1 VWs. They recommended the Leistritz.
>
> Rapid Parts had the best price I could find on the Leistritz: $289.95.
>
> APS sells a Gillet package which consists of two resonators. It
> replaces the stock stuff from the cat back to the front of the rear
> muffler. $299. I have decided against this, because my rear muffler is
> already four years old, and will need to be replaced soon, so I might
> as well take care of it now.
>
> Haven't got in touch with Ron Wood/VW Specialties yet--they're only
> open Tuesday through Friday.
>
> Talked to a guy at Euro Sport. Their system is 14 guage mandrel-bent
> aluminized steel (same as TT), one resonator and a Walker Dynamax
> muffler (same as TT), $195.00 (same as TT). The guy said it was a bit
> noisier than stock. Said it made an extra 7 HP, mostly at high revs. I
> run an AutoThority Stage II kit--don't know how that will affect the 7
> HP number. He says their VR6 system uses the Walker UltraFlow muffler,
> which is all-stainless. The muffler alone costs $130 and has a
> lifetime warranty (!).
>
> Which brings me to Techtonics. The prices they advertise are $195 for
> aluminized steel and $285 for stainless. This system includes a
> Dynamax muffler and one resonator, more or less the same as Euro
> Sport. Here are some "noise" numbers the guy gave me.
>
> Quoted sound pressure levels (dB at 25 feet)
>
> idle 2500 rpm 5500 rpm
> stock 52 60 80
> one-resonator TT 63 64 79
>
> It isn't quite so simple though. They offer the all-stainless
> UltraFlow muffler (same as EuroSport) and an extra resonator "a la
> carte":
>
> aluminized stainless
> base price $195 $285
> + 2nd resonator $ 40 $ 60
> + UltraFlow $ 60 $ 60
> ------------------------------------------------------
> "loaded" $295 $405
>
> shipping is $20 UPS ground
>
> Sooo...an "all-out" Techtonics system, which would consist of
> stainless pipes, a second resonator and the killer rear muffler, would
> cost $405 plus $20 UPS ground.
>
> This is no longer an inexpensive aftermarket exhaust!
>
> I am baffled (ahem) and don't know how to proceed.
>
> I could get the Euro Sport or "base" TT, for ~$200. I could get the
> two-resonator UltraFlow aluminized TT or the Leistritz for ~$300. Or I
> could get the TT with "the works" for ~$400. I think if TT didn't
> offer so many options, I would have just bought the stupid thing and
> been done with it! (Seriously.)
>
> Anyone with suggestions, please suggest them to me!
>
> Hope this info is intersting to someone....
>
> Alex
> lewin@vgi.com
> '90 G60 APE Stage II with holes in the suitcase
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 11:34:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Deanna Westra
Subject: [Q]: aftermarket exhaust (fwd)
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 14:25:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Majd Sakr
Subject: [Q]: aftermarket exhaust
Hi!
I called around to ask for an aftermarket exhaust for my 92 G60
and I was told that REMUS is THE BEST. It is pretty expensive:
$395 for the rear muffler
$695 from the cat back (~ +7HP)
Has anyone heard of the REMUS muffler?? (Austrian made!)
Thanks,
Majd.
--
===============================================================================
Majd F. Sakr
University of Pittsburgh / Department of Electrical Engineering
348 Benedum Hall / Pittsburgh PA 15261 / (412) 624-8840
===============================================================================
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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 17:12:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Deanna Westra
Subject: Re: [Q]: aftermarket exhaust (fwd)
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 12:37:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Gary Andrew Yuen
Subject: Re: [Q]: aftermarket exhaust (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 14:25:15 -0500 (EST)
> From: Majd Sakr
> Subject: [Q]: aftermarket exhaust
>
>
> Hi!
>
> I called around to ask for an aftermarket exhaust for my 92 G60
> and I was told that REMUS is THE BEST. It is pretty expensive:
>
> $395 for the rear muffler
> $695 from the cat back (~ +7HP)
>
> Has anyone heard of the REMUS muffler?? (Austrian made!)
I've heard of it and have seen ads for it. It's imported by Claus
Ettensberg (sp?) Corporation. Aaron Neumann put it on the Neuspeed
Project Jetta III. I asked Tim at ND and he said that Aaron lost power
with the Remus. Other people seem to like it on their cars though
(Mercedes and so forth). The dyno graphs that are shown of the Remus on
a Golf VR6 in the brochure are pretty impressive though (if they're
true).
Gary
From usc!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!calvin!not-for-mail Thu Dec 1 10:13:00 PST 1994
Article: 44441 of rec.autos.vw
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From: rvborgh@ursa.calvin.edu (Raymond Vander Borgh)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: [W] In-tank fuel pump question
Date: 28 Nov 1994 20:00:06 -0500
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In article <3bdn10$81m@siesta.cs.wustl.edu> christos@siesta.cs.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) writes:
>In article <3aged3$9bf@utkux1.utk.edu>, cpha wrote:
>>Also, I asked awhile ago about good exhausts. I wanted a Borla.
>>Everyone else replied Techtonics. I want something a little higher
>>end. I was thinking if not a Borla, what about a Leistritz (spelling?).
> Very good exhaust, but some claim a worse than average longevity
>(it is not stainless steel).
>Christos.
I just had a Techtonics downpipe break on me last week. Got on the phone and
Darrel V. mentioned that the new ones come with a stainless steel collector,
and the design is improved over the one I purchased 3 years ago (I was wrong
when it came to how long it lasted - I had thought only 2 years). He was
graceful enough to offer the replacement at dealer cost. I also ordered
the high flow cat at the same time. So they did treat me fairly IMO.
I'm not sure if the newer TT exhausts come with 14 gauge tubing either.
When it comes to exhausts I'll recommend the best setup of 4 that I've
used (including a Supertrapp) on my Rabbit. I had been previously running
a supertrapp with 6 discs (can you say loud), and then mounted a 944
muffler and custom bent 2" tubing from the cat back with a TT downpipe
before that. The 944 muffler flows just as well as the Supertrapp and
sounds great. Not loud, and no droning at any rpm ranges (esp on the free
way). Best of all it works great at the top end with the two litre.
It is quite a heavy muffler however, it barely fits, and most muffler
shops won't attempt it. If you are into the custom exhaust approach then
that is what I have enjoyed. The Borlas I've heard are louder than they
need to be due to the stainless steel fiber that absorbs the sound).
The Leistritz's aren't the best for power I've heard. The Gillette I helped
my friend install in his '92 Golf was good quality, and seemed to help
somewhat even with his smaller cat outlet. All in all if you want a high
bucks system then go with either Gillette or Supersprint (very high
quality - their headers are beautiful).
Hope this helps.
Peter Tong
'82 2.0 8v Cabby
From usc!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spstimes.sps.mot.com!mogate!newsgate!mark Tue Jan 10 10:10:36 PST 1995
Article: 47472 of rec.autos.vw
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Path: usc!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spstimes.sps.mot.com!mogate!newsgate!mark
From: mark@wdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: Quiet Free Flowing Exhaust?
Message-ID: <1995Jan9.222527.25139@newsgate.sps.mot.com>
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Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 22:25:27 GMT
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In article, hppydys@aol.com (HPPYDYS) writes:
|> contact autotech in california, i hear they have a great hi-power, low
|> noise exhaust.
Well, great power anyway. I have the new Sport Exhaust on my 79 Scirocco
and have actually measured it with a sound level meter (before and after).
The SPort exhaust is only a few db louder at idle, max in 1st and at
cruise in 3rd at about 45 mph. But these are all fairly steady-state
or short durations. It also depends on the sound level weighting (human
range A or broader band C). Despite the readings it is definitely loud.
Particularly when accelerating WOT above 3500 rpm where it turns into
a raspy sound that is not very pleasant.
Unforntunately with a 4-cylinder I don't think you can have a fairly
quiet flow thru design without a center resonator like my stock system
had. But these resonators also change the pipe resonance vs rpm and
may offset the rest of the design.
I, too would like to find a quieter (or at least always a rumble)
exhaust that gives the performance gains of this system at a reasonable
price (around $160).
Mark
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Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 15:50:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Alex Lewin
Subject: G60 exhaust news update
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So....
I just got off the phone with Velocity and Autotech.
***
Velocity has cat-back systems as follows:
$ 189 gets you 2.25", 14-guage aluminized pipe with a DynoMax on the end
of it (his words)
+ 87 for a Borla muffler in place of the DynoMax
+ more for a somewhat bigger Borla muffler
The guy I talked to recommended the bigger Borla when I expressed concern
about sound levels. The hitch is that with the bigger Borla, the system
is not bolt-on, i.e., you have to shorten some of the pipes yourself.
***
Autotech has a cat-back all-stainless dual-muffler system. The rear
muffler is an Ultraflow. The fellow I talked to at Autotech said that
their system was much easier to install than the TT system.
$299!
This is lots cheaper than an all-stainless TT equivalent, which would
cost at least $120 more.
Sounds like the right thing--I think Autotech is going to get my money.
THE CATCH: (of course there's a catch)
They won't start shipping this system for a month and a half or so.
:-(
Maybe if we bug them enough they'll move the schedule up.
Cheers
Alex
From jhamill@tiac.net Tue Feb 21 13:13 PST 1995
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Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 16:11:50 -0500
From: jhamill@tiac.net (John Hamill)
Subject: Re: Exhaust for A3 GTI 8V
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To: Jan Vandenbrande
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>In article you write:
>
>> I have the full Remus exhaust on my Golf III, middle pipe and rear dual tip
>>muffler. It looks cool, is far better made than any of the Eurosport or TT
>>exhausts, and is deep and quiet. It was also a lot more expensive. Whether it
>
>Hi John.
>
>How does it sound? Is it a lot noisier? How's the fit?
>
>Jan
Deep, but quiet. It is not noisy at all. Not anything like the
Eurosport on my wife's G-60, which uses a Walker Turbo II or something like
that. The fit was perfect, and it looks cool with 2 stainless round tips.
The Eurosport don't fit that well either. They try to fit this big American
style muffler into the area to the left (looking from behind) of the gas
tank and it's not a good fit. The TT, Eurosport and Techtonic exhausts are
all made from generic American pieces, but at least affordable. Remus is
made specifically for each model it fits. The midrange and upper hp is
improved with the Remus.
John
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Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 23:29:57 -0500
From: jhamill@tiac.net (John Hamill)
Subject: Re: Exhaust for A3 GTI 8V
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>>
>> Deep, but quiet. It is not noisy at all. Not anything like the
>> Eurosport on my wife's G-60, which uses a Walker Turbo II or something like
>> that. The fit was perfect, and it looks cool with 2 stainless round tips.
>
>That's good to know. I saw a couple Remus exhausts and they are pieces
>of art. A bit wierd, I guess, it's almost like saying "This is a
>great looking sewer pipe".
>
>How much did you end up paying for it if you don't mind me asking?
>Did you have a look at their dual cat down pipe?
The muffler was $300, and the middle pipe was $150. They're sold as
seperate pieces, so I upgraded 1 piece at a time. I suspect they will last
the life of the car though.
Dual cat downpipe? I didn't know about that, I'll have to check it
out. My wife and I just bought a new house though so parts spending is a bit
on hold for now.
later, John
Article 52526 of rec.autos.vw:
Path: usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gmi!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.cerf.net!hacgate2.hac.com!usenet
From: 00j4043@ccmail.emis.hac.com (TR Sills)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: 16V HEAD ONTO 8V BLOCK???
Date: 2 Mar 1995 16:26:56 GMT
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Company
Lines: 26
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In article <3iupvq$eff@nnrp.ucs.ubc.ca>
rstevens@unixg.ubc.ca (Robert Stevenson) writes:
> I've got an 88 Fox Wagon that requires a little heart transplant. I
> posted awhile ago but my access was cut off and I couldn't read any
> replies. So here I go again. Is it possible to bolt a 16V head onto an 8V
> block? I know that it is the same block, but what are the other mods I
> have to perform?(i.e. fuel injectors, oil pump etc..) Got to get this Fox
> up to speed. How about exhaust systems? I'm looking at the Euro Sport
> system but am afraid that it will be too loud. I do a lot of freeway
> flying and don't need the equivalent of a chain saw buzz resonating in my
> ear. Thanks in advance for any replies, which would be much appreciated.:-)
>
> Rob Stevenson
> "If it's not German (or Brazilian) it's crap."
Rob,
Regarding the Eurosport exhaust...I've got their whole exhaust & header
on my '89 Fox and the sound is not terribly loud. I too do a lot of
freeway driving and am not bothered by it. I tend to notice the exhaust
sound off though when I nail the throttle w/ my windows down & I may be
in somewhat tight areas (traffic, center divider, etc.). On the +
side, your mid to upper range hp will be boosted too.
TR
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Mar 13 15:38 PST 1995
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 18:31:27 -0500 (EST)
From: mspivak@hyperdesk.com (Spivak, Marat)
Subject: FYI: Exhaust update
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I have finally done it.
I had a VW dealer install my new Bosal exhaust.
The exhaust was advertised as stock replacement (non high
performance). It cost me $385, delivered to my home, from MAAS Auto
Parts. When I got it, I realized that the resonator is 1/2 the size
of stock. I asked people at MAAS about this, and they called Bosal.
They were told that this exhaust is sold as replacement exhaust in
Europe, and they did not bother to retool for the US market (is this
BS?). In any case, I went ahead, and installed it, since it looked
reasonable.
The sound it produces is slightly different than stock. It is boomier
at idle (I kinda like it), and very slightly louder while cruising.
The mechanic who did the install (VW dealer in Worcester, MA) said it
did not fit perfectly, when I asked him, although it took him about 40
minutes to finish the job, and he thought it was a good alternative to
the $1100 stock exhaust.
The tail pipe is not the same black finish as stock. Instead, it is
aluminum color, oval shaped (does not look bad).
Marat
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Mar 31 11:34 PST 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:15:11 -0500 (EST)
From: mspivak@hyperdesk.com (Spivak, Marat)
Subject: Exhaust update
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Time for an exhaust update, as some list members are patiently waiting
for the outcome of my adventures.
As many might recall, I reported preparing to install the Bosal
(nonperformance) system. I decided to take it to a VW dealer (Patrick
in Worcester, MA). The system was installed, but not aligned
properly. The resonator (suitcase) hangers were not supporting any
weight, so quite a bit of vibration was transmitted through other over
stressed hangers. When I came back and asked them to try and do a
better job realigning it, I was told that the system did not fit
properly (some pipes were too short, I confirm this) and that was the
best they could do (the mechanic who did the installation did not
inspire confidence - my ->first<- impression of him was not good). The
service manager was very friendly though, and tried to help.
I was later able to negotiate with MAAS Auto Parts people to take the
system back, and they worked with Bosal (or supplier) who later agreed
to take it back (even though it was already installed and in use). If
this works out (I have not yet been credited), I should put in a good
word for MAAS Auto Parts for taking the time to negotiate with Bosal
supplier. I then ordered Leistritz Sport Sound from GPR, and had it
installed shortly after it arrived.
The Leistritz system fit the car perfectly. The tail pipe looks
really sharp. However, I was slightly shocked by the sound level when
I heard it operating for the first time. It is louder then I
expected, but sounds "cool", especially at high RPM and full throttle.
The car seems to pull stronger, but that may be just an overall effect
;-) I guess I might have the option of installing a resonator to
quiet things down, but I will wait to see if I can live with the
current setup.
In summary, Leistritz makes a good system for Corrado G60, but it is
substantially louder then stock.
Marat
'90 Corrado G60
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Mar 31 08:19 PST 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 08:03:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Wu
Subject: alarms
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I've never set off my alarm or have ever heard it go off.
I decided to add on the AMS Keyless entry/alarm add on, instead of installing a
whole new system. I don't like to mess with the wiring, since almost anything
could go wrong, as a result. They want 250 + 50 for the shock sensor and 30 for
the glass sensor (or was it the other way around?). I think that's not too bad,
since I wouldn't need to have anyone install an alarm, saving labor charges,
and aftermarket alarms aren't much cheaper than that anyways.
On the topic of exhausts, Aaron at neuspeed says "leave it the way it is",
since it seems that any mods actually take away from the car. The APS store is
a nice place.
oooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOO
Lawrence Wu
Email: LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
Black VW Corrado SLC
"Quick!!! To the Batmobile!"
OOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOooo
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Apr 2 17:29 PDT 1995
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Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 20:00:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Brian J. White"
Subject: Re: Exhaust update
In-Reply-To: <199504022242.SAA08619@gold.interlog.com>
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I got under my VR6 today and the WHOLE exhaust and I mean every part in
it has a BIG FAT Leistritz logo on it.
Any comparision between the factory system like mine and the aftermarket
Leistritz systems??
On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, David Tam wrote:
> > Time for an exhaust update, as some list members are patiently waiting
> > for the outcome of my adventures.
> >
>
> >
> > The Leistritz system fit the car perfectly. The tail pipe looks
> > really sharp. However, I was slightly shocked by the sound level when
> > I heard it operating for the first time. It is louder then I
> > expected, but sounds "cool", especially at high RPM and full throttle.
> > The car seems to pull stronger, but that may be just an overall effect
> > ;-) I guess I might have the option of installing a resonator to
> > quiet things down, but I will wait to see if I can live with the
> > current setup.
> >
> > In summary, Leistritz makes a good system for Corrado G60, but it is
> > substantially louder then stock.
> >
> > Marat
> > '90 Corrado G60
>
> I had the Leistritz install om my G60 last summer. At first I had problems
> with the fitting but eventually got it right. But still if I have people
> sitting at the back the exhaust will vibrate over the rear axle bar because
> the car is lowered.
>
> As for the sound I found the system to produce different sound at different
> times. Sometimes it sounds great a bit louder that stock at idle and more at
> full throttle. But occasionally I get the annoying bussing sound at all
> rpms. I am trying identify as whether is it related to the weather or not.
> Do you have the same experience on your system.
>
> Regards.
> David
>
>
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Apr 2 17:28 PDT 1995
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Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 20:17:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: mszlabow@newssun.med.miami.edu (Michal Szlabowicz - Med Student)
Subject: Leistritz exhaust....
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I'm glad (well maybe glad isn't the word) that someone has the Leistritz
exhaust and it's rubbing on the rear axle! I've been trying to figure out
why, and was even thinking that it was bad motor mounts (replaced them,
with no avail). It mostly rubs if you have the car loaded, or with someone
in the back seat...(I try to make the Coarrado a two seater, so it's not
audible most of the time...
As far as the sound, it was a tad loud for me so I went to a local muffler
shop (not a chain, but an owner operated shop) and he took the time to put in
a resonator ($35 parts and labor) between the catalytic and the rear muffler,
as well as adding a hook, which now allows me to use one more of those rubber
grommet/suspenders, decreasing the rubbing. The exhaust note is still the
same, but is quite a bit quieter, and makes this background growl, peaking at
about 4.5k rpm, where it simply screams especially now with the added sound
of the Q-Flow filter up front...Love it when I drive under overpasses, with
all the sound resonating off the walls!
Ciao,
Mike
mszlabow@newssun.med.miami.edu
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Apr 3 07:06 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 08:55:01 -0500 (EST)
From: mspivak@hyperdesk.com (Spivak, Marat)
Subject: Re[2]: Exhaust update
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My system seems to sound the same all the time, no buzzing noise.
It fit properly, no vibration.
Marat
I had the Leistritz install om my G60 last summer. At first I had problems
with the fitting but eventually got it right. But still if I have people
sitting at the back the exhaust will vibrate over the rear axle bar because
the car is lowered.
As for the sound I found the system to produce different sound at different
times. Sometimes it sounds great a bit louder that stock at idle and more at
full throttle. But occasionally I get the annoying bussing sound at all
rpms. I am trying identify as whether is it related to the weather or not.
Do you have the same experience on your system.
Regards.
David
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Apr 2 21:35 PDT 1995
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Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 21:21:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lawrence Wu
Subject: Re: Exhaust update
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>I got under my VR6 today and the WHOLE exhaust and I mean every part in
>it has a BIG FAT Leistritz logo on it.
>Any comparision between the factory system like mine and the aftermarket
>Leistritz systems??
Like I said before, no aftermarket exhausts so far offer any improvement over
the stock on the VR6's. This according to Aaron at Neuspeed and various other
reliable and knowledgable sources. Personally I'd think that the aftermarket
ones are the same as the stock. Either way, there's no point in wasting money
on any after market exhaust, or at least right now.
oooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOO
Lawrence Wu
Email: LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
Black VW Corrado SLC
"Quick!!! To the Batmobile!"
OOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOooo
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Apr 2 23:02 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 01:50:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Rod L. Wiggins"
Subject: Re: Leistritz exhaust....
In-Reply-To: <9504030017.AA07496@newssun.med.miami.edu>
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On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Michal Szlabowicz - Med Student wrote:
> I'm glad (well maybe glad isn't the word) that someone has the Leistritz
> exhaust and it's rubbing on the rear axle! I've been trying to figure out
> why, and was even thinking that it was bad motor mounts (replaced them,
> with no avail). It mostly rubs if you have the car loaded, or with someone
> in the back seat...(I try to make the Coarrado a two seater, so it's not
On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Rod Wiggins - Idiot wrote:
Yup, been there... Tried everthing to keep the Leistritz from riding the
rear suspension on mine, including the chain reinforced hangers. As soon
as I went for a long aggressive drive the mounts would sag. I added a
center mount and this seems to have worked but I haven't driven it very
hard lately. Pretty frustrating. You would think it would work "out of
the box". Most of the times I had problems with it was following a long road
trip; meaning I was far away from my shop with a sick car. However, it
sounds fabulous, and was quite a bit cheeper than the factory exaust
($1500!!!). However when my girlfriend drives the car she says guys
often say to her: "nice car, but I think you need a new exaust, By the
way... what kinda car is that... a Honda?" I explain to her that it is
legal in most states to Mace a person for calling a Corrado a Honda. She
agrees.
Rod Wiggins
90 G60
83 Audi Turbo Quattro Coupe
former 81 Scirroco S, 83 Audi Coupe GT and 72 VW/Porsche 914 owner.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Apr 9 15:13 PDT 1995
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Date: Sun, 09 Apr 1995 18:01:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex Lewin
Subject: yesterday's Natick, Mass. Corrado gathering
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: Corrado List
Cc: Eric G Schneider ,
Marat Spivak , Alex Lewin ,
Michael C Voorhis ,
Nathan Winters
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I thoroughly enjoyed the afternoon.
Four unique Corrados brought their owners to the somewhat damp parking
lot.
We had four different power systems--G60s at stages 0, 2 and 3, and an SLC
(VR6). One of the first two things I noticed when I "chipped and
pulleyed" my G60 was the dramatic change in the sound of the engine, so I
was curious to hear Nate's stage 3. The two sounded more or less the same
to me (exhaust aside, see below), and I guess I was a little relieved, even
though I've had absolutely no problems in the 10k or so miles since I
installed the stage 2 kit. Eric's SLC was predictably strong and smooth. I
must say the sound of the VR6 on the gas is quite stirring--it reminds me of
a jet plane.
We also had four different exhaust systems--stock G60, stock SLC, Leistritz
G60, and stock G60 with a hole in it :-\. I was happy to have the chance to
hear Marat's Leistritz G60, since I do plan to do something about the hole
in my exhaust. I liked the sound of the Leistritz. From outside the car, the
idle was throaty and deep, and throttle-openning evoked an assertive
song. From inside, it didn't seem loud at all...but we didn't probe the far
side of the speedometer....
I look forward to a reprise.
Alex
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Apr 11 07:06 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 09:45:57 -0400
From: davidtam@interlog.com (David K. Tam)
Subject: Re: yesterday's Natick, Mass
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> Reply to: RE>yesterday's Natick, Mass. Corrado gathering
>
>Sounds like you guys had a blast tring out each others cars! I am happy to
>here that the Leistritz exhaust sounds good, because my 90' G60 needs a new
>mid muffler. The Leistritz, if I remember correctly, was a bargin price for a
>preformance Statinless steel exhaust replacement. (Alex, you did some research
>on this right?)
>
>Anyone here in Illinois want to get together?
>
>Jeff
The Leistriitz is a good bargan for the price, but I am not sure if it is
Stainless steel. My Leistritz has been fine so far, it took a long to to get
the perfect fitting because the car is lowered and the mid pipe would rub
against the rear axle. I notice an abnormal bussing or vibrating sound from
the muffler. It sounds like something is loose or vibrating inside, it only
happens at certain rpm and intermittent. Once it gets warmer I will crawl
under to investigate before the two years warranty expires.
Regards.
David
From autox-owner@triumph.cs.utah.edu Thu Apr 20 15:31 PDT 1995
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Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:02:34 -0400
From: pZ@customline.MV.COM (Paul Czarnecki)
Subject: Re: Flowmaster for miata
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>I just had a conversation with "Scott" at Flowmaster about a muffler for
>my '94
>miata.
I assume you have already decided to run a Flowmaster but I thought I'd
throw in my 2 cents. I ran a Flowmaster on my 86 CRX Si for a couple of
years. I remember several things:
- it was one of the most beautiful sounding cars at the track. It didn't
have the Walker rasp or the SuperTrapp rattle, it just sounded nice.
- It was slightly quicker than the stock Honda muffler from 20-55mph. (2nd
gear all the way, no shifting, lots of data points) It only faster by
about 0.25 seconds.
- it weighed a ton. I'd guess 40 pounds, but I never had it on the scale.
It looked like I could park my car on it and not dent it.
- it was very, very loud, particularly at low revs backing off the
throttle, the sorta driving you do in you neighborhood at 20mph at 2AM
trying to be quiet. On the highway it was annoyingly loud, not painful,
just annoying.
When the pipes died (the muffler was fine but couldn't be reused), I
replaced it with a Walker Super Turbo Dynomax. Why? It was cheaper by a
hole lot (about $30 versus about $200), and it claimed to be quieter. When
installed, it was a lot quieter. It gets real loud under acceleration, but
back off throttle behavior is good. It is much quieter on the daily
commute. Also, I didn't weigh it, but it seemed to weigh a lot less, maybe
20 pounds total. I also hate the sound.
Given that I think mufflers are a small part of car preparation and that
weight, cost, and sound reduction is important, I think it was a fine
decision. However, you are in a different boat, you are Nationally
Competitive. If the Flowmaster is n% better than the Walker, you should
probably go for it. It will also sound great!
pZ
--
Paul Czarnecki -- Customline Software
pZ@Customline.mv.com
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Apr 28 18:15 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 19:55:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Steven M. Kosloske"
Subject: Sport Compact Car
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Just got the June issue of Sport Compact Car. The Jap imports haven't
taken over this mag. yet. There is an ad for an exhaust system I've
never heard of, by Bosal, called the BROSPEED. They have models for VW's.
Tried calling the 800 number, was too late, I'll try later. Anyone know
anything baout this system, or if there is a Corrado version?
Also, on the last page there are pictures of body kits for several VW's,
including *3* for the Corrado. The last one is a wide body kit that I had
to look at twice before I noticed it was a Corrado, and I use "was" in the
past tense. It looks really different, and really bad in my opinion. I
have to wonder if they sold any of these. I'll scan it in and post the
GIF here in a couple of days. You have to see it.
The company that offers it is Erebuni Corp. in NY.
--
(Steve Kosloske) | "If God did not exist, it would
------------------------------------| be necessary to invent him." -
I-net: Steven.Kosloske@mixcom.com | Voltaire
`90 Corrado G60 |
From ebateman@harp.aix.calpoly.edu Fri Apr 28 18:26 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 18:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Eric J. Bateman"
Subject: Exhaust Stuff
To: Jan Vandenbrande
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I was reading in either the FAQ or the archives about exhaust systems,
and saw lotsa brands, but was surprised to see Remus missing. I called
Autobahn Designs about this system, and they said that cat-back systems
were available, but not for the Jetta II. (maybe others) The Jetta
system consists of the snazzy muffler only, but has a pretty long pipe
attached to it. According to the ABD rep, it has the same amount of
power as the TechTonics system, but is *quiter than stock*! I didn't
know that was possible. Anyway, hope this helps out somewhere.
Eric
87 Jetta 8v
BTW, I have the TT system
Article 5625 of rec.autos.vw:
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Need Reasonable $$$ Exhaust System - '88 GTI 16V
Message-ID:
From: jmcelroy@wpi.edu (James McElroy)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:29:09 -0500
References: <3neaf4$2la@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
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Lines: 51
In article <3neaf4$2la@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, markeemrk@aol.com (Markee
Mrk) wrote:
> Has anyone found a good "reasonable" source for exhaust work??? My '88 GTI
> 16V needs the middle and back mufflers.
>
> Both Midas and Meineke quoted prices around $300.
The archives has tons of info on exhausts. (ftp lap.umd.edu I believe?).
My quick synopsis:
Forget about Midas, Meineke, or any other rip-off chain. They might be
cheaper in the short run, but:
- the fit might be terrible (ask them if they use parts made for your car
or just standard off the shelf parts.)
- the sound won't be the same (I think the burble of 16v's is music)
- the performance will likely be diminished (exhaust systems are carefully
designed by engineers; midas systems are just slapped on by kids from what
basically amounts to spare parts).
- the quality is terrible from what I've seen (they did exhausts on
parents cars that last less than a year)
As an alternative, buy an oem system from a vw mail order place like Rapid
Parts. Or, try a little bit louder aftermarket exhaust (and a tad more
power); Techtonics has a complete system (mufflers, pipes, etc.) for under
$200. Other options are Leistritz, Euro Sport, Gillet, etc. (again, see
archives).
If you don't feel like putting the stuff in, go to your friendly
neighborhood mechanic and ask him to install the new parts. (If s/he
gives you any grief about installing parts you didn't buy from them, point
out they told you to go to the dealer).
This sounds silly, but throwing inferior parts on VW's is a pet peeve of
mine. VW's are great cars to drive, and with some modifications (on my
car, for instance, new springs, shocks, wheels, tires, short shift, shift
weight, roll bars, strut tower), they are even better. Why would you want
to go the other way and put sub-par parts on them? I agree dealers'
prices are insane, but I've had great luck with mail order houses (half
dealer price, oem parts).
A friend of mine put the cheapest tires he could find on his '90 G-60 for
years, then finally tried some good rubber. He couldn't believe the
difference. Tires probably affect your car more than exhaust, but still,
well, you get the point...
--
James McElroy
92 GTI 16V. 90+k miles.
jmcelroy@wpi.edu/james_mcelroy@bose.com
From ebateman@harp.aix.calpoly.edu Mon May 1 18:45 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 01 May 1995 18:43:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Eric J. Bateman"
Subject: Re: Exhaust Stuff
In-Reply-To: <01HPZHWFQ1XU003UQV@UG.EDS.COM>
To: Jan Vandenbrande
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I know what you mean about the mufflers being nice. I've
never seen one in person, though. They run about $450 for the 16v
Jetta. Ouch. I have a 16v TT system because my cat went out. The usual
catalyst breaking away from the canister. Combined with 12 BTDC, the
power is great. Most noticed on windy back roads coming out of slower
corners. The first time I went on my favorite road with the TT, I was
VERY surprised.
Eric
87 GLI 8v
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue May 9 12:55 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 09 May 1995 14:22:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: jcarter@tellabs.com
Subject: EuroSport Exhaust (was Re: June European Car)
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> From teleport.com!corrado-l-owner Tue May 9 13:45:34 1995
> To: corrado-l@teleport.com
> Subject: Re: June European Car
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>
> I agree. It was worth $349.95 for a full stainless system. Its
> definately not worth $479! The muffler doesn't look like anything
> better than a Dynomax turbo.
>
> I think the EuroSport $195 cat back alum system looks good now.. Anyone
> have this one on their car?
>
> '90 Black G60 Corrado
> '84 Champagne Wolfsburg Scirocco
> '78 Fiat Spyder ;)
>
>
> -- Corey Stup
> -- Inet: CSTUP@IGLOU.COM
> -- Louisville, Kentucky
>
>
I had a EuroSport alum. system installed on my 1990 G60 about a month and a half
ago. It is louder at idle, especially when its cold and the idle is kicked up,
but I don't really notice it being much louder at highway speeds with the
windows up. It does sound great at I accelerate out of the many toll booths
around Chicago. I'm not sure how it will hold up during the winters but figured
I could buy four EuroSport systems for the price of a replacement stock exhaust
from the local muffler shops. I don't know if it's pyschological or not but I
do seem to think that I feel little more power now when accelerating. The big
difference I noticed was that I finally got rid of the annoying vibration/
resonance in the 2500-3000 rpm range most noticable when I was in first. I also
think the car may be turning fewer revs at highway speeds but only by 100-200
rpms at most. Overall, I am pleased with my decision which was based more on
cost than performance, but I am enjoying the car much more now. I remember
driving home from the muffler shop that installed it thinking, "Why didn't I do
this sooner?"
For anyone who doesn't know about the system, it is Mandrel bent and comes with
a resonator, over the axle pipe, Dynomax turbo muffler, and tailpipe, the system
in 2 1/4 inches throughout and comes with new rubber hanger pieces. They
also sell individual replacement pieces as well. It uses the stock hanging
points with one for the front OE muffler not used. The tail pipe does stick out
farther than the original tailpipe, I wasn't sure if I like it at first but
now I think it looks OK.
Jim
1990 Yellow G60 Corrado
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue May 9 21:33 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 09 May 1995 21:25:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lawrence Wu
Subject: RE: Lowering, Gear Ratios, Clip on pedals
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>It looks like a few people are lowering their cars by a couple of inches.
>But not too long ago there was a discussion about the muffler hitting the
>rear axel. Is that limited only to after market mufflers, or do
>you guys do some modifications like shorter, stronger hangers?
I don't have any problems clearing my muffler and the kit I just put in lowers
the car about 2 inches. The muffler is stock since I refuse to modify my
exhaust. But I won't go into that again. Anyhow, I didn't modify the hangers or
anything. Man does my car turn heads now. It's rather odd that lowering 2
inches turns heads.
Lawrence Wu
LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
Corrado SLC Black/Black Leather
"I'm your Huckleberry" - Doc Holiday
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu May 18 06:56 PDT 1995
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Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 09:44:05 -0400
From: davidtam@interlog.com (David K. Tam)
Subject: Re: Suitcase muffler
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>Although I'm very reluctant to changing my exhaust, I was thinking about taking
>out the suitcase muffler and just straightpiping it to the rear muffler. Anyone
>try this? The thing that I'm always concerned about is the loss of torque in
>changing or modifying the exhaust. I do love the way it sounds stock, although
>louder I can tolerate.
>
>
>Lawrence Wu
>LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
>Corrado SLC Black/Black Leather
I thought about the same last summer for my G60, foolishly I went and did
it. I took out the resonator and placed a straight pipe instead. Boy was it
load, it sounded like an airplane or one of those Mustangs.
After a week and I can't stand it any longer, I replaced with the Leistritz.
I had a lot of problems installing to get it fit right and now the rear
muffler buzzes like hell especially at approx. 3500 rpm where my torque peaks.
If you like you stock then keep it.
Regards.
David
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu May 18 09:30 PDT 1995
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Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 09:08:43 -0700
From: lwu2@csupomona.edu (Lawrence Wu)
Subject: Re: Suitcase muffler
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Boy I had this bad nightmare last night. I was taking off from 1st and when I
floored it, it accelerated like my mom's Toyota Corolla.
Anyways, I'm not going to take off the resonator (front muffler according to
Bentley). Taking that one out would reduce torque but increase HP from what I
heard. I think low end torque is much more useful than high end HP. I mean, I
go up to 3000 rpm's when I'm driving, but realistically how often do I go up
to 5000 or 6000? Instead, I want to take out the big suit case muffler if it
doesn't reduce torque. It kills midrange?
>From what I've heard, the suitcase muffler is rather light.
Lawrence Wu
LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
Corrado SLC Black/Black Leather
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue May 23 12:14 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 15:04:55 -0400
From: davidtam@interlog.com (David K. Tam)
Subject: Re: ANSA exhausts
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>Some friends of mine who run a garage are trying to convince me to get an
>ANSA exhaust to replace the disintegrating stock exhaust on my G60. They
>say it offers a lifetime warranty, etc.. About $600
>installed, they say. Quiet and very stock-like, they say.
>
>ANSA doesn't seem to advertise in EC, so they can't be that cool....
>
>(kidding)
>
>Seriously, anyone have any experience with ANSA exhausts on G60s (or
>anything else)?
>
>I've also talked to Bosal, and they offer a system for the G60.
>Aluminized muffler, flanged (instead of clamped), $366 cat back, OE-style
>hangers, pieces replaceable separately.
>
>Anyone have experience with this?
>
>Thanks
>Alex
>'90 G60
Alex,
My experience with my exhaust system is "IF it ain't broken don't fix it". I
had too much problems, first with the installation and know my 1 yr. old
Leistritz muffler rusted and I need another one.
Regards.
David
Article 644 of rec.autos.vw:
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Leistritz vs. Autotech
Message-ID: <3qaron$94@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
From: turbotim@aol.com (TurboTim)
Date: 28 May 1995 17:59:51 -0400
Reply-To: turbotim@aol.com (TurboTim)
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Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Lines: 33
Here is the rest of the list
Listed below are most of the exhaust systems available for H20 VW's
Available in the US
Leistritz Brospeed *ABT (Sebring) Tectonics
Gillet Supersprint *Zender (Sebring) Autotec
Sebring *MOMO Devil Eurosport
Ansa Remus
Not available in the US (to my knowledge)
*Nothelle *Oetinger
Bosi *Hartmann
* Private label (system made by other manufacturer)
** Turbotim **
** Second Generation BBS
** Headquarters for Audi and H20 VW Owners
** (408) 980-8830 (2 lines) 24 hours
********* Current Vehicle Fleet ***********
** 95 Jetta GLX (turbo soon) - 95 Turbo Cabrio
** 78 Turbo Scirocco - Jackrabbit kit car
** 85 Quantum - 93 Mercedes 190 E
** 77 Scirocco - 89 Cabriolet (for Sale $5500)
** 91 Chevy S-10 4X4 - Kawasaki Jetmate Boat
** Kawasaki 550 Jetski - various trailers etc...
Article 611 of rec.autos.vw:
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Leistritz vs. Autotech
Message-ID: <3q8p8f$hev@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
From: mannix@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (MANNIX IAIN RORY CAMPBELL)
Date: 27 May 1995 21:04:47 -0600
References:
<3q65i4$2f6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsu.colorado.edu
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Just to add my bit - I have a Leistritz on my 84 GTI - it rattles a
little, but I am sure I could get under there and fix it - too lazy. I
am at the other end of the spectrum of many of the people here - it is
too quiet for me. Actually, I do not care how loud my car is, but I was
expecting a much larger tube than the Leistritz comes with, and I have
convinced myself that the Leistritz is a limiting factor for my
car/modifications. It works well, I guess! No leaks, fits well - the
rattles are directly related t poor idle when cold - the factory did the
same. Good luck! As a note - a friend uses TT on a 78 Scirocco, and has
no problems, but he says it was hard to fit, and many shops I have
talked to say the TT is difficult, or, that aftermarket exhausts are
tricky to get to fit well on Rabbits. The Leistritz will fit!! Good
luck, Mannix
In article <3q65i4$2f6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
TurboTim wrote:
>Sorry screwed up will finish list later.
>
>
>
>
> ** Turbotim **
> ** Second Generation BBS
> ** Headquarters for Audi and H20 VW Owners
> ** (408) 980-8830 (2 lines) 24 hours
> ********* Current Vehicle Fleet ***********
> ** 95 Jetta GLX (turbo soon) - 95 Turbo Cabrio
> ** 78 Turbo Scirocco - Jackrabbit kit car
> ** 85 Quantum - 93 Mercedes 190 E
> ** 77 Scirocco - 89 Cabriolet (for Sale $5500)
> ** 91 Chevy S-10 4X4 - Kawasaki Jetmate Boat
> ** Kawasaki 550 Jetski - various trailers etc...
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed May 31 14:56 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 18:46:26 -0300
From: Andy
Subject: Re: [W] just ordered Techtonics exhaust for '90 G60
In-Reply-To: from
"Alex Lewin" at May 31, 95 05:12:05 pm
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> I think the stainlessness of it all is what convinced me.
I have had (and still do) a Lestritz muffler. It is galvanized I think,
and coated with some black stuff. I live in NS, where there is 5 months
of salt on the roads. I went rallying with my car and bottomed out
several times scraping the bottom of it off. That was 2 years ago. I
still have not seen any rust. I had the muffler for 4 years now and my
friend has his for 6 now. Another friend just ordered one (payed extra
$20 for the galvanized one) and is very happy with it. We all like the
looks and sound of the Leistritz a lot + the easy installation. So there
is some real results on the Leistritz muffler under some harsh conditions.
I am in no way involved in any Leistritz advertising or sponsership, just
my cents worth.
If I had to get another muffler, it would be Leistritz.
Andy
--
--. \/ .----------#####**********] Corrado & GTI FUN-atic (Don't o \o
--.\/\/.---G60----#####**********] forget to bike,ski,windsurf, ,-\ \--
---....-----------#####**********] sail) gajewski@ug.cs.dal.ca 0\-0 \/
See the Corrado WWW Page at: http://ug.cs.dal.ca/~gajewski/corrado.html \.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed May 31 23:12 PDT 1995
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Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 02:08:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: Re: Techtonics exaust
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>still have not seen any rust, I had the muffler 4 years now and my
My friend had (has another) leistritz exaust on his Jetta GLI. It lasted
2 years (end of warrenty) and 3 months, when it started to growl. We
looked underneath to see swiss cheese pipes. Leistritz would not warrenty
it, although it was past by 3 months. $289 for just over 2 years, what a
rip off! My 83 GTI has a bottom line TT exaust with no holes after 3
years. My girlfriends 16V Scirroco just had its factory (stainless)
exaust replaced just before she bought it. 8 years and 178k miles of New
England salt covered roads to do it in. Stainless is best if you can
afford it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 23:55:10 -0300
Subject: performance faq addition
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For an 85 GTI:
When I put on my Leistritz muffler I got rid of the pre-muffler (or
suitcase muffler) just before the real muffler. It is not the resonator
or catalytic converter. The thing weighs about 30lb and I did not notice
any sound increase. So you might want to take it off.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Jul 2 19:04 PDT 1995
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Date: Sun, 02 Jul 1995 20:59:04 -0500
From: stevek@execpc.com (Steven M. Kosloske)
Subject: Corrado G60 mods
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Did the mods on my `90 G60 today. I bought a Stage 1 Chip from AutoTech for
$275, and the K&N filter for $42, $10 for shipping. Also got a Euro-Sport
exhaust system from EuroSport Accessories for $195+$20 shippiing.
Did the filter first. I would suggest taking the whole air box out if you
want to do this, the clips are impossible to get off with the airbox in
the car. Remove the air intake from the G-Charger (mine had a little oil in
it) and the 2 vacuum lines from the back. There is a rubber band on the
inside and back of the box to hold it down. Pop those off and it slides
out. Saw the "Made in Mexico" stamp on the metal under the box. Pop the 4
clips and put in the new filter. Close the clips, drop it in, put the 2
bands back on, and reconnect the 2 lines and air intake. Done. Took about
half hour because I tried to get just the clips off, and also washed out the
airbox. If I did it again, I could do it in 15 minutes easy.
Next was the exhaust. Started by putting the car up on ramps and took off
the clamp at the back of the cat. and bewteen the 2 mufflers. Tried to pry
off the hangers, but it's too difficult, the the new system included all the
hardware, so I just cut the old ones off. Had to cut the pipe in back of
the suitcase muffler and pulled the rear off. The rear muffler was in
pretty good shape, and the exhaust pipes are really thick steel. Next I
cut the front hangers off and dropped the pipe and suitcase muffler. The
muffler had a lot of ruse and few holes, which is why I did this in the
first place, it was getting annoying. The OEM exhaust system is really
heavy, I probably dropped 50 pounds with the new one. The Euro-Sport system
has, in order from the front after the cat., a glass pack resonator,
crossover pipe, turbo rear muffler and tail pipe. All clamps and hangers
are included. The instructions are pretty poor, and I found that the best
way to put it together is to put the pieces on from front to back, pounding
them on one by
one, then putting the clamps on after it's all together. I cut about 4" off
the tail pipe since it stuck out further than the bumper, and it was all
installed correctly. Not sure if it was supposed to be like that, or if I
got the wrong tail pipe, but it looks cool cut short. Sticks out about as
far as OEM, but it's silver. The entire system is 14g steel, pretty big
pipes compared to the OEM system, and "aluminized". It's a pretty good
system for $200. Especially considering the OEM system is $1000.
As for sound, it's definately louder than stock. It has that glass-pack
muffler rumble at idle, and has a louder tone as you accellerate, but only
at the beginning, as you get up to about 25 MPH and let off on the gas, it's
about the same, maybe a little louder than stock. With the windows rolled
up, no radio on, you can only hear it at idle and when you first pump it.
Overall I'm pretty happy with it so far. It took about 2.5 hours to do the
whole thing. A lot of the time was getting the new pipes to fit, they're
really tight.
Last I did the chip. What a job. Took me about 60-75 minutes, I didn't
time it. The instructions are pretty poor, they should include some simple
pictures. First you pry up the cover over the "brain" and remove the cover
over the air intake. It took me about 10 minutes extra to clean it out.
There was about a whole tree worth of leaves stuck in there. I'm going to
start cleaning this out regularly now. After pulling out the intake cover,
you remove one nut for the box frame, pull one vacuum line and snap off the
main electrical cable. (anyone know what the vacuum line is for?) After
this, patience is neccessary, since you have to slide the box and it's metal
frame to the outside of the engine compartment then pull it out. It's a
trick taking it out.
Next you take out 2 screws to get the box off, then 7 screws to open the
box. Next comes the what I thought was the hardest part, getting the
stupid plastic clips off the IC board. Take out 5 screws to get the RF
shield off
the chip, pull the chip, put in the new one and put it all back together.
Again it's tricky shoving it back in the car. Once it's in, it's pretty
easy to reconnect it all and finish. Luckily it started back up so it seems
everything works.
I love the difference in the ride. I haven't done the after measurements
yet, but the car seems to have the pull at 2500RPM that it used to have at
3500, which is a big difference. Maybe I think I feel it since I'm pretty
excited about the whole thing, but it's definately better. I'll get the
"after" times done in the next couple days and post them.
Start to finish the whole job took 4 hours. I wasn't rushing and took a few
breaks. If you have all the right tools and manuals you could do it all in
3 hours easy.
Now the car is lighter (only by about 50 pounds), faster and louder. Next
step is new springs and shocks, but I'll wait till the stock ones are bad.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Jul 24 07:14 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:01:25 -0500
From: stevek@execpc.com (Steven M. Kosloske)
Subject: New exhaust "problem"
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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I've had the Europort exhaust on my G60 for about 3 weeks now and have
started to notice that when the engine is winding down at low
speeds, usually around 2K-1K RPM it will give a short "pop" sound kind of
like minor backfire, or will just seem like the exhuast flow isn't
at the proper pressure. Is the Eurosport system too big for the Corrado?
Is this a symptom of too low of back pressure, or is this
normal? I actually like the low growl of the system, but this seems like it
shouldn't be happening.
Also, I took my Corrado out to a parking lot late one night to really push
it around corners, with hard braking, etc. to get it to do heavy
over and understeer. In my opinion, you really have to push it to get it to
slide, and once you know how far you can go, where to lift
the throttle, etc. the Corrado is really very controllable. About the only
bad feeling is when you go into a turn fast, start to slide the front
wheels, then lift off the accell and pound on the brake. Never do that.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Jul 21 10:50 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 13:41:36 -0400
From: TurboTim@aol.com
Subject: Re: Bigger TB- 11.5" Brakes - ABT-D&W-ND Exhaust
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: UniqueVR6@aol.com, corrado-l@teleport.com
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In a message dated 95-07-20 19:40:13 EDT, Edward Writes:
<< it would really be great if you can send a sample out to ELP soon to see
what they can do with it. Is this a 3.5 mm increase over stock or the
Neuspeed one >>
We just got off the phone and they are sending one to us to test. Will let
everyone know about how well it works. The say 3.5 over stock. But can go to
othersizes, but do not know if it will be any better than the European 1.9.
We will find out!!
>Keep us updated re the 11.5" brake kit (is it going to be affordable?)
They will hopefully come stock on 1996 models but I am sure the price will be
high for quite a while till they are in circulation.
>- I haven't >been able to get any more info on Autotech's dual-piston
caliper >approach since >Dana is on a paternal leave of absence!
He suppose to be working on revisions of the catalog. Thats what we are told.
>Oh, is the D&W catalogue available? I did enjoy reading the email exchange
re a >particular portion of the female anatomy! ;o) I'm still waiting for
the Oettinger and >ABT one...
Yes we will have them in a while. They are so heavy and low dollar value that
by ship is the only lowcost way and of corse a boat is slow compared to air.
Any way I can get the 1995 edition for $45 now air freighted but the price
may drop in a while. Our next container will have a bunch of goodies. We can
also get the ABT flyer packet. We will have some fliers on their stuff for
people interested soon. As for Oettinger they are still getting back in the
business after some problems a fews years back compared to ABT is the largest
VW-Audi tuner in Germany.
**TT**
P.S. Had to share this with you.
Preliminary test results on our ND/Borla stainless exhaust systems
All hp figures are wheel hp. Calculations use by most are x1.25=engine hp
Test Model: 1995 VR6 GTI 2,000 miles Bone stock
stock with ND exhaust only
3000 77.6 81.3
3500 95.7 100.0
4000 118.6 119.6
4500 131.8 137.9
5000 140.6 146.4
5500 144.2 153.5
6000 142.6 157.2
ND/Borla Cat back system with single 3.5" stainless tip and 10 year 100,00
mile warranty with 1 million mile warranty on the mufflers.
Est. prices from $369.00
From ebateman@harp.aix.calpoly.edu Tue Aug 8 12:18 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Eric J. Bateman"
Subject: Exhaust
To: Jan Vandenbrande
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Status: RO
Ok, here's the official word on some exhausts:
Remus: Great looks, quiet sporty sound, but little or no power on
muffler only. Cat back systems get 1-2 hp. (Figures from A3 2.0 on
chassis dyno)
Autotech: According to Techtonics, not quite as much power as the TT
system.
Hope this helps with the FAQ.
Eric
87 Jetta GLI 8v
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Aug 21 12:44 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 13:07:02 -0400
From: TurboTim@aol.com
Subject: Re: VR6 exhaust
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In a message dated 95-08-19 01:09:06 EDT, you write:
>I was wondering if anyone with the VR6 has changed their exhaust system? I
>remember Aaron at Neuspeed telling me that there would be no benefit, since
>the stock exhaust is free flowing and has a good diameter piping already.
>What
>have your experiences been?
>
>
Aaron will be testing one of our systems soon as we have them ready to ship.
We have been test fitting the twin tips for the GLX and just got started on
the G-60. Will keep you posted on results. Listed below are results from our
GTI VR6 system.
A3 Golf GTI VR6 bone stock
stock with ND exhaust only
numbers are wheel hp
3000 77.6 81.3
for engine hp x1.25
3500 95.7 100.0
4000 118.6 119.6
4500 131.8 137.9
5000 140.6 146.4
5500 144.2 153.5
6000 142.6 157.2
**TT**
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Sep 15 08:48 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:43:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tim Zarkovacki
Subject: Mods
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To: Corrado Group
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Well after the undergoing numerous changes and modifications my G60 is
where I want it. I installed the Neuspeed P-Chip, Neuspeed Upper Stress
Bar, HP Kit, Autotech Sporttuned Exhaust, Moda M1 15 x 7 's with Sumitomo
205/50ZR15's. I also tuned up the radio with a Clarion 5740 Head Unit
and 6 Disk Changer which is mounted under the rear armrest. Excellent
Spot. Lastly I installed Bass-Blockers on all my 4x6 speakers and a
Pioneer Space Saver Subwoofer. It is an awesome system. I installed a
Alphasonic amp and Profile Crossover for my Sub. The result is crisp
clean highs, ok mids, and very decent bass response. More importantly,
my car runs and handles like a charm. I estimate it is pushing 200+ with
all the mods. The exhaust sounds awesome at idle and is really throaty.
As you accelerate is quiets down except under heavy acceleration. The
only thing that sucks is that at 65-70 MPH it is quite loud when going up
hills with other passengers or weight. The easiest fix is to speed up to
75-80 MPH where it gets considerably quiter. I recently drove to
Tennessee from Ohio and I was a awesome trip. Four suitcases, 3
passengers 80 MPH , tunes cranked up == an awesome cruiser.
I have been very busy lately with my car, computer and school so I
haven't been as active as I would like to be in this group.
Future plans for my G60 may include a Eurospec head with new cam,
215/45ZR15 Zeros, lowering springs , sway bars, and several dark coats of
deep purple paint. However this will have to wait for quite a while.
Ohh. Well . It is nice to think about.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Zarkovacki
The University of Akron
r3tkz@dax.uakron.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From anikzad@symbol.com Wed Nov 15 11:57 PST 1995
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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 14:54:31 -0500 (EST)
From: anikzad@symbol.com (Arman Nikzad)
Subject: Re: G60 Pulley size (fwd)
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
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I will get all the numbers that I can find on it for U tomorrow. The
pulley is at home.
AT muffler: Great overall construction, it's kind of heavy but feels real
solid, bit noisy. as far as flow and flow restrictions I have
not made any attempts in measuring the flow. perhaps U can
suggest a way. overall worth the price I think, specially if
Ur original was on his way out.
Arman
G60 91, 36K , StageIII, P-FLOW, AT muffler, Brembo Rotors.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Dec 10 10:27 PST 1995
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Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 17:15:19 -0800
From: Tim Zarkovacki
Subject: Re: Autotech Muffler
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Status: RO
I have the Autotech Muffler on my '90 G60. I first had the Gillette
exhaust from the HP Kit on and then changed to the Autotech because I
had a big hole in my rear exhaust. The Autotech is very nice. The tip
is pretty large and looks great when it's clean. The only bad part
about it is that it becomes very load and drony at 3 - 3.5k. On trips
it requires a loud stereo to divert my attention so I don't hurt my car.
Well hope this helps.
TTYL
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Fri Feb 9 09:12 PST 1996
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Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 19:04:11 +0200 (EET)
From: "Data Inestments Corp. Inc."
Subject: Re: ANSA exhausts
In-Reply-To: <199505231904.PAA28988@gold.interlog.com>
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On Tue, 23 May 1995, David K. Tam wrote:
> >Some friends of mine who run a garage are trying to convince me to get an
> >ANSA exhaust to replace the disintegrating stock exhaust on my G60. They
> >say it offers a lifetime warranty, etc.. About $600
> >installed, they say. Quiet and very stock-like, they say.
> >
> >ANSA doesn't seem to advertise in EC, so they can't be that cool....
> >
> >(kidding)
> >
> >Seriously, anyone have any experience with ANSA exhausts on G60s (or
> >anything else)?
> >
ANSA they are Italiean, they are not very good, I think DEVIL are
the best with Sbring, SuperSprint
Karim
> >I've also talked to Bosal, and they offer a system for the G60.
> >Aluminized muffler, flanged (instead of clamped), $366 cat back, OE-style
> >hangers, pieces replaceable separately.
> >
> >Anyone have experience with this?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Alex
> >'90 G60
>
> Alex,
>
> My experience with my exhaust system is "IF it ain't broken don't fix it". I
> had too much problems, first with the installation and know my 1 yr. old
> Leistritz muffler rusted and I need another one.
>
> Regards.
> David
>
>
> Article 644 of rec.autos.vw:
> Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B9 05/16/94 VAX/VMS V6.1; site bbs.ug.eds.com
> Path: bbs.ug.eds.com!nntp2.cerf.net!news.cerf.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!ne
> ws-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
> Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
> Subject: Re: Leistritz vs. Autotech
> Message-ID: <3qaron$94@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
> From: turbotim@aol.com (TurboTim)
> Date: 28 May 1995 17:59:51 -0400
> Reply-To: turbotim@aol.com (TurboTim)
> Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
> References: <3q65fk$2ep@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
> Lines: 33
>
> Here is the rest of the list
>
> Listed below are most of the exhaust systems available for H20 VW's
>
> Available in the US
>
> Leistritz Brospeed *ABT (Sebring) Tectonics
> Gillet Supersprint *Zender (Sebring) Autotec
> Sebring *MOMO Devil Eurosport
> Ansa Remus
>
> Not available in the US (to my knowledge)
>
> *Nothelle *Oetinger
> Bosi *Hartmann
>
>
>
> * Private label (system made by other manufacturer)
>
>
>
> ** Turbotim **
> ** Second Generation BBS
> ** Headquarters for Audi and H20 VW Owners
> ** (408) 980-8830 (2 lines) 24 hours
> ********* Current Vehicle Fleet ***********
> ** 95 Jetta GLX (turbo soon) - 95 Turbo Cabrio
> ** 78 Turbo Scirocco - Jackrabbit kit car
> ** 85 Quantum - 93 Mercedes 190 E
> ** 77 Scirocco - 89 Cabriolet (for Sale $5500)
> ** 91 Chevy S-10 4X4 - Kawasaki Jetmate Boat
> ** Kawasaki 550 Jetski - various trailers etc...
>
>
> Article 611 of rec.autos.vw:
> Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B9 05/16/94 VAX/VMS V6.1; site bbs.ug.eds.com
> Path: bbs.ug.eds.com!nntp2.cerf.net!news.cerf.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!sp
> ool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!boulder!ucsu!not-for-mail
> Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
> Subject: Re: Leistritz vs. Autotech
> Message-ID: <3q8p8f$hev@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
> From: mannix@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (MANNIX IAIN RORY CAMPBELL)
> Date: 27 May 1995 21:04:47 -0600
> References:
> <3q65i4$2f6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
> Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsu.colorado.edu
> Lines: 34
>
> Just to add my bit - I have a Leistritz on my 84 GTI - it rattles a
> little, but I am sure I could get under there and fix it - too lazy. I
> am at the other end of the spectrum of many of the people here - it is
> too quiet for me. Actually, I do not care how loud my car is, but I was
> expecting a much larger tube than the Leistritz comes with, and I have
> convinced myself that the Leistritz is a limiting factor for my
> car/modifications. It works well, I guess! No leaks, fits well - the
> rattles are directly related t poor idle when cold - the factory did the
> same. Good luck! As a note - a friend uses TT on a 78 Scirocco, and has
> no problems, but he says it was hard to fit, and many shops I have
> talked to say the TT is difficult, or, that aftermarket exhausts are
> tricky to get to fit well on Rabbits. The Leistritz will fit!! Good
> luck, Mannix
>
> In article <3q65i4$2f6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
> TurboTim wrote:
> >Sorry screwed up will finish list later.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ** Turbotim **
> > ** Second Generation BBS
> > ** Headquarters for Audi and H20 VW Owners
> > ** (408) 980-8830 (2 lines) 24 hours
> > ********* Current Vehicle Fleet ***********
> > ** 95 Jetta GLX (turbo soon) - 95 Turbo Cabrio
> > ** 78 Turbo Scirocco - Jackrabbit kit car
> > ** 85 Quantum - 93 Mercedes 190 E
> > ** 77 Scirocco - 89 Cabriolet (for Sale $5500)
> > ** 91 Chevy S-10 4X4 - Kawasaki Jetmate Boat
> > ** Kawasaki 550 Jetski - various trailers etc...
>
>
>
>
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Tue Mar 5 04:17 PST 1996
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Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 07:12:32 -0500
From: EIPTUNING@aol.com
Subject: Re: G60 Headers
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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We have used the Brospeed (Bosal) A2/A3 header on several A2 and A3 models
including the G60. It fits well, is constructed of heavy gauge steel and has
a nice flex joint at the cat. flange. Hp increase is hard to measure by the
seat of your pants (we did not dyno test the results) but the car ran very
well and has a slightly more aggressive exhaust note. I give it a thumbs up,
especially considering it's reasonable price.
----------> RICH !! <-----------
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Wed Mar 20 11:44 PST 1996
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 12:41:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Kosloske
Subject: RE: Suitcase Muffler revisited
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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I had to install a new exhaust system on my `90 G60 last spring because
the old one had some holes in it. I opted for the EuroSport system. It
was fairly inexpensive, and had the standard niceties like mandrel bends,
large pipes, aluminized metal, etc. It is the whole cat-back system, and
replaces the suitcase muffler with a glass pack muffler right off the
cat, and a standard canister muffler at the end, the suitcase is replaced
by a cross-over pipe. One thing I noticed was that the stock exhaust was
VERY well designed, and the suitcase muffler actually acts to improve
underbody windflow. But it also was very heavy, the new exhaust complete
weighs less than the one OEM muffler. It's a fairly easy install if you
have installed an exhaust system before. It is a bit louder, you notice
that right away, but I like the growl of the new system, and I wasn't
willing to pay the $1000 or so the OEM exhaust would have cost. I'm
happy with the new system.
----------
From: owner-corrado-l[SMTP:owner-corrado-l@teleport.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 1996 10:07 AM
To: corrado-l
Subject: Suitcase Muffler revisited
From: Kevin Peterson
///Interface Product Launch Marketing, Data Management Division
///M/S A1545 Tel: (408)721-8660 Fax: (408)737-7218
Subject: Suitcase Muffler revisited
Corrado nuts,
I remember someone posted a question about the suitcase muffler being
removed and was wondering if anyone has done that and what there
opinions are. Any increase in hp? Is it loud? Comments? TIA.
Kevin
93 Corrado VR6 (Classic Green Metallic/Tan Leather)
San Jose, CA
bkxpsc@tevm2.nsc.com
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Sat Mar 30 12:21 PST 1996
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Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 13:48:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: Exaust mod results
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Cc: bkxpsc@tevm2.nsc.com, hoovere@pa.net
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To those concerned, I've finished removing the suitcase muffler from my
VR6. The sound is simply awesome! As a matter of fact it sounds just like
the Autotech exaust on my friends GLX. It has a nice burble, not to loud.
I paid $58 for the pipe, and $20 to for an 1 1/2 hrs of shop time. Most
of the time was spent figuring and measuring. The welds are very nice. It
looks great.
If you own a VR6 C, this is the way to go for performance, sound, and
price. I'm guessing a large part of the extra 6 hp Cs make above GTIs and
GLXs is in the factory exaust, so replacing it with a full system is not
neccesary. I looked at my friends stock GLX muffler (twin tip from 94),
and it's not a free flowing one like the C has (it looks quite
restrictive).
I suppose I can do a cheap kit for people if people want. Then just have a
a good muffler shop (are there any) weld the pieces. E-mail me if your
interested.
later on...
Brian 93 VR6
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Mon Feb 12 01:03 PST 1996
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 00:58:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Gary Yuen
Subject: Re: Different types of exhaust systems on Corrado VR6.
In-Reply-To: <311ED186.7B98@hec.ca>
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: The Only True Corrado
Cc: Corrado-l Mailing List
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On Mon, 12 Feb 1996, The Only True Corrado wrote:
Definitely! I love the sound of the exhaust. That and the P-flo is
really cool. Even if the power was the same, I would do it. It's not
too loud during normal driving and highway cruising but if you have the
windows closed and the radio off, you'll still notice it. The power
gains are definitely there above 4000rpm too. I can't say it feel
extremely faster but it is noticible. I can't remember what the
warranty is but I think it's something like the VW powertrain warranty,
at least for the pipes and I think longer for the Borla components. Is
that right Tim?
Oh, I have a Jetta GLX so I'm not sure how much of a difference there
would be on the Corrado. The Corrado has 6hp more than A3 VR6s,
supposidly from some difference in the exhaust. Maybe the manifold or
cat? So that might change the gains you get from the exhaust on the
Corrado. But Tim would know. He's probably done a Corrado VR6 already,
right Tim?
Oh, here's my dyno results but again, they're almost definitely wrong.
Looks like a dyno isn't always consistent. I'm not sure what factors can
change dyno results besides differences in the car but there was
something weird about my test. I think ND has gotten an average gain of
6hp but here's what happened with my dyno. Whenever I do it again, I'll
post the results..
Jetta GLX
w/P-Flo/t-body
RPM & P-Chip GLX w/exhaust hp difference
3000 90.8 93.5 2.7
3500 112.75 121.8 9.0
4000 137.50 153.7 16.2
4500 144.43 160.5 16.0
5000 153.45 171.6 18.15
5500 159.0 182.75 23.75
6000 172.15 181.50 9.35
6500 161.15 169.46 8.25
7000 133.43 141.76 8.??
Even though that's probably not right, it gives you some idea of where
the gains are.
Oh to answer your questions, yeah, I would definitely recommend it. I
love the sound and the power difference is noticible. I've had it since
November and haven't had any problems. Actually, it does backfire a
little bit and I'm not sure why. Maybe the fuel mixture is slightly rich?
Gary
> So it definitly worth the price?
> I would appreciate to be near SJ, but I'm right at the opposite! Quebec!
> ;-)
>
> So you would 100% recommende ND's exhaust..? You have it since
> how may time? Is there a good warranty?
>
> Did you downloaded the wav at ND's site? GLX VR6 with their exhaust...
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Frank
>
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Wed Feb 14 15:08 PST 1996
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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:03:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Gary Yuen
Subject: Re: Different types of exhaust systems on Corrado VR6. --> ND's system.
In-Reply-To: <31222D29.5BA8@hec.ca>
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: The Only True Corrado
Cc: corrado-l@teleport.com
Reply-To: Gary Yuen
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On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, The Only True Corrado wrote:
> Hello Gary!
>
> Ya, you're probably right... maybe the exhaust had just
> amplified the backfires...
> Uh, I don't know, but can it be corrected, that kind of problem?
Not sure. Probably thru a chip but maybe running a little rich
isn't too bad?
> Uh, you said it was all from cat to back that was changed? How
> many parts? Rear muffler, that's one, Borla resonator, that's 2, and
> after that? Which parts are ND and which are Borla? The backpipe is like
> what? 4", 3", round, like the Corrado, or other?
>
> Thanks a lot, I will REALLY consider ND's exhaust... If ever you
> can have fresh dyno figures, I would appreciate to see them...
The Borla resonator and muffler, and then all of the pipes are from
ND. I currently have a 4" Bosal black powder coated tip but I'm going to
eventually replace it with something stainless, maybe Sebring..
Oh, I found the dyno figures that TurboTim posted a while go. I'll
send them to you.
Gary
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Thu Apr 4 22:26 PST 1996
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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 20:53:33 -0800 (PST)
From: finn@teleport.com (bubblegum perfume)
Subject: BROSPEED INSTALL
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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I now have met two things this week that purr..... a new girlfriend (who
literally purrs) and my Brospeed exaust system... good south afrikan
steel... the kit cost 289 @ motor sport designs shipping included.... it
contained the front "suitcase", a midpipe and a rear muffler.... the tip
is chrome and you could fit a grapefruit in it.... i was planning on doing
the install myself, but i brought it to an exaust shop and they put it on
for 45.00 .. i was kinda bummed i decided to bring it to a shop, but when
the dilligent mechanic fired up the aceytelane torch to get some frozen
hardware off, i knew i did the right thing..... it fit extremely well... no
rattles so far.. the sound is amazing.. a deep burble at idle... kind of a
40Hz bursts \\\\the power band seemed a bit more crisp, but w/o a hotter
cam and pulley set (yet) the diff. in hp will not really be that
different... the sound at 3-5k is nice, it's not too in your face, but you
notice the car .. almost as if a second harmonic had beed added to the
original tone.... the quality is impeccable.. an extremely stiff and
aluminumized steel... the hardwear is nice as well.. (copper nuts).. i'm
gonna go pull some g's now.....
BTW i saved my original VW exaust... it's got 15k on it and no rust.. if
anybody wants to buy it. e-mail me...
90 Black on Black G-60 80k. 17" TSW Hockenheim R/Perelli P-700. Hor Tech.
Springs. Autotech 25/28 hollow sways. Brospeed exaust. Tokiko HP's.
Neuspeed P-Chip, P-Flow, Upper strut tie, Schrothe Harness, 80mph rear
wing. ISV Bypass. Momo knob. Razzo Pedals. PIAA Fogs. Kenwood, ADS,ADCOM.
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Tue Apr 9 00:42 PDT 1996
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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 16:11:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: BKXPSC@tevm2.nsc.com
Subject: Re: Exaust mod results
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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From: Kevin Peterson
*** Resending note of 04/08/96 15:46
///Interface Product Launch Marketing, Data Management Division
///M/S A1545 Tel: (408)721-8660 Fax: (408)737-7218
Subject: Re: Exaust mod results
I just want to thank Brian for letting me in on this mod for the
exhaust. It was a real simple procedure. Only took like 10 minutes and
it only cost me $10.00 since my roomate knew someone at the muffler
shop. Unfortunately, they didn't have any stainless pipes so I opted for
the aluminum. What they did was take off the suitcase muffler and
replaced it with a 35 degree pipe. I do notice gains in the top end but
I lose bottom end. I don't have a chip yet and I think installing that
would boost my low end some. I love the sound too. My friends were
telling me it sounds pretty mean. I had this one guy ask me if I had a
turbo in it. I had to laugh. Mated with the modified airbox, it
definitely has a distinct growl! Thanks Brian. And if you guys and gals
out there don't have the money to get a nice exhaust, I would opt for
this for the time being. Thanks again Brian!
Kevin
93 Corrado VR6 (Classic Green Metallic/Tan Leather)
San Jose, CA
bkxpsc@tevm2.nsc.com
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Thu May 2 17:13 PDT 1996
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Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 16:44:08 -0700
From: Edward John Thai
Subject: Middle Muffler Eliminated
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Hello all, I just had the middle suitcase muffler removed from my car
an hour ago. Unfortunately no local shop apparently could make up
stainless-steel T304 piping with mandrel-bends, so I kept it simple and
had the muffler shop simply replace the middle muffler with a fairly
straight piece of 2.5" aluminium tube which was welded to the 67mm (2.6+
inches) Abt exhaust, for cheap.
Initial impressions? Well, the once ultra-quiet Abt exhaust (quieter
than stock!) has a bit more character in its note now, especially when
accelerating, and the thrilling growl of a tuned VR6 no longer emanates
solely from the FlowTech (P-Flow-like filter) on the engine side.
Though sounding less of a sleeper than before, the exhaust noise is
still very controlled and not objectionable at all, which was what I was
going for.
No significant change in power has been observed or felt thus far (as
expected), but it should be noted that I've only gone up to 5700 rpm at
this point. Future experimentation will focus on eliminating the sharp
180 degrees bend in the tubing between the resonator and rear muffler,
going to a correctly-sized stainless-steel tubing, and fine-tuning the
ECU on a dyno for these changes...
Would like to thank Brian for all his help and diagrams, if anyone
with the stock VR6 exhaust system would like to tinker around with
removing their middle muffler, he can help you get a Borla
stainless-steel tubing with mandrel bends and have it fabricated for the
C., at a very reasonable price.
Oh, if anyone is interested in buying my Abt middle muffler, please
let me know. It's had 2-3 months of use, (supposedly) hand-made from
stainless steel, has a heat treatment coating applied to it, more
free-flowing than stock but controls the exhaust sound very well, and
has 2.6" openings on each end to connect to the front and rear mufflers.
Overpriced at about $600 for the unit, but I'd part with it for $200 or
so (negotiable) as I don't need it anymore...
Edward
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Wed May 8 09:15 PDT 1996
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Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 13:10:25 -0300
From: Andy
Subject: Suitcase Muffler removed - Impressions
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: corrado-l@teleport.com (Corrado Group)
Reply-To: Andy
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Well, got a shop to finally take that thing off my G60. $160 later....I
have a straight pipe with some bends in it. Got it from the cat back to
the muffler and its aluminum (2.25" diameter).
Imperssions: Its definately a little louder but not anoying, it has this
deep groul to it like then you get a Leistritz for a GTI.
The car feels smoother throughtout the RPM range. There used to be this
point at 2500 where the charger kicks in but now it is almost gone. Now I
don't know why but I have 2 theories:
1) THe new set up increased low end torque and eliminates the sudden puch
of the charger (cantary to what most said that it will reduce
backpressure hence decrease low end performance.)
2) THe new set up decreased high end performance thus eliminating the
sudden punch of the charger. (contary to people that said that more
free-flow will increase the high end.)
Overall, I did not notice any gain/loss of power except that the car is
smoother (kinda like a Vr6).
For theories, I have an open air box with K&N, satage II (NS), NS chip
and the car is a '90.
Andy
--
--. \/ .----------#####**********] Corrado & GTI FUN-atic (Don't o \o
--.\/\/.---G60----#####**********] forget to bike,ski,windsurf, ,-\ \--
---....-----------#####**********] sail) gajewski@ug.cs.dal.ca 0\-0 \/
See the Corrado WWW Page at: http://www.thepoint.net/~bwhite/corrado.html \.
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Wed May 8 09:15 PDT 1996
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Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 13:10:25 -0300
From: Andy
Subject: Suitcase Muffler removed - Impressions
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Well, got a shop to finally take that thing off my G60. $160 later....I
have a straight pipe with some bends in it. Got it from the cat back to
the muffler and its aluminum (2.25" diameter).
Imperssions: Its definately a little louder but not anoying, it has this
deep groul to it like then you get a Leistritz for a GTI.
The car feels smoother throughtout the RPM range. There used to be this
point at 2500 where the charger kicks in but now it is almost gone. Now I
don't know why but I have 2 theories:
1) THe new set up increased low end torque and eliminates the sudden puch
of the charger (cantary to what most said that it will reduce
backpressure hence decrease low end performance.)
2) THe new set up decreased high end performance thus eliminating the
sudden punch of the charger. (contary to people that said that more
free-flow will increase the high end.)
Overall, I did not notice any gain/loss of power except that the car is
smoother (kinda like a Vr6).
For theories, I have an open air box with K&N, satage II (NS), NS chip
and the car is a '90.
Andy
--
--. \/ .----------#####**********] Corrado & GTI FUN-atic (Don't o \o
--.\/\/.---G60----#####**********] forget to bike,ski,windsurf, ,-\ \--
---....-----------#####**********] sail) gajewski@ug.cs.dal.ca 0\-0 \/
See the Corrado WWW Page at: http://www.thepoint.net/~bwhite/corrado.html \.
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Thu May 16 02:01 PDT 1996
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Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:47:12 -0700
From: Vincent Huang
Subject: Re: suitcase replacement/rotors
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: "CJ. Hapeman"
Cc: Corrado-l@teleport.com
Reply-To: Vincent Huang
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Status: RO
CJ. Hapeman wrote:
>
> someone mentioned they have the procedure to replace the
> suitcase size exhaust thing with a pipe which is bent to
> fit. if i remember they also sell the pipe.
I got mine from Velocity Tuning. Actually, I got mine off a friend who got it from Velocity, so I don't know
how much they actually cost. The pipe comes all mendral bent and all u have to do is to get someone to either
clamp it on or weld, as in my case. I also got the shop to make a resonator to fit in between the cat and the
new pipes, ( I know, I know....then why did I get rid of the suitcase muffler? :> ). After the suitcase
muffler is remove, the sound is LOUD...I mean LOUD. I almost didn't pass the sound limit at Laguna Seca.
Thats the reason for the resonator. Anyway, the resonator is much better flowing then the stock unit. I
replace the resonator with a piece of straight pipe when I'm at the tracks.
> also, i have a warped front rotor. are the cross drilled
> rotors worth the extra $75 each? if i go with them do i
> need metallic pads, one aftermarket place said yes, the
> other no. if i stay with the standard vented rotor do i
> need to replace my pads, they have 10-15K miles on them.
The rotors help alot. Change your brake fluid to a super dot 4 like the ATE blue one. Practically no fade
whatsoever. You DO have to change brake pads when you change rotors so might as well go with the metallic
pads. Hope I answered all your questions.
Vincent
90 black G60
From gring@ibm.net Sat Jun 1 19:35 PDT 1996
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Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 22:09:28 +0000
From: gring@ibm.net
Subject: Volkswagen Exhaust Systems
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
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Just to update you on the Techtonics Tuning stainless steel exhaust. I just installed one on my 1991 Passat 16V. It's 2.25" tubing and all T-304 stainless. Even the welding rod and clamps are stainless. It has 2 resonators and a Walker UltraFlow muffler. It installed in less than 1 hour and fit like a glove. The quality is 1st rate and the change in low end grunt is noticeable. It's alittle loud for a family car but what the hell. I have made numerous other changes to the car. The only thing it is missing is a fancy tip. The tail pipe is just a plain stainless pipe, but after alittle while polishing it its fine. The best thing was the price, $503 delivered to my front door. VW wanted $583 just for the rear and center muffler alone. Other mufflers such as Remus, Sebring and Abt much too expensive. If you want the best bang for the buck, buy the Techtonics Tuning system.
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Mon Jun 3 20:53 PDT 1996
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Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 23:42:21 -0400
From: Brian J White
Subject: Re: ND Borla exhaust
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
X-Sender: bwhite@198.6.9.2
To: arne@rio.com (Arne Berglund)
Cc: corrado-l@teleport.com
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I drove Tim's white G60 which had the ND Borla exhaust ( i think also in
final beta test form???)
It sounded WONDERFUL. The Borla exhaust on the VR6 Jetta, Meesh's VR6
Corrado, Jennifer's VR6 Golf, and the G60 Corrado all sounded wonderful.
The only way to really explain the sound and the feeling you get revving
through the gears with this exhaust is 'Italian Sports car' Very
Ferrari-ish sound. Smooth...yet bassy....yet...quiet. Yet.....powerful
sounding. I will get one when they come out (If I can afford it at the
time of course)
B
At 08:14 PM 6/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
>>Not sure if I am out of line here by jumping in on the exhaust
>>opinions, but I just had the new ND Borla Performance Exhaust put on
>>my car Thursday (right before buttonwillow), and it is COOL! Not
>>sure how much it will dyno out different than the stock, but it doesn't
>>matter to me (with the great tone). It FEELS better and sounds the best!
>>Very inviting and sexy! Jason and Brian heard it while they were out
>>here too. Mine is the prototype, so with what we find on it we will
>>be making the final version shortly.
>
>Please tell me that it will be available for G60's also. Pretty please!
>
>Arne Berglund
>90 Corrado G60
>91 GLI 16v
>********************************************************
>arne@rio.com
>http://www.rio.com/~arne/ "Arne's Page: Mostly Matchboxes"
>
>********************************************************
>
>
>
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Wed Jun 5 04:03 PDT 1996
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 06:00:30 -0500
From: Yoshiki Hakutani
Subject: Re: ND Borla exhaust
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: corrado-l@teleport.com
Cc: Ashley Ziel
Reply-To: Yoshiki Hakutani
Message-Id: <31B568CE.79D3@mail.nyquist.com>
Organization: Nyquist Technologies
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Status: RO
Ashley Ziel wrote:
>
> At 11:42 PM 6/3/96 -0400, you wrote:
[snip]
> One more exhaust question.
>
> Has anyone tried the Sporttuned 304 Stainless (midpipe back) system from
> Autotech for the C VR6? Any feedback welcome.
>
> TIA,
>
> AZ
>
> Ashley Q. Ziel Silver '92 SLC Pensacola, FL
> aziel@students.uwf.edu
I don't have a VR6, but I do have the 304 Stainless cat-back system
on my '90 G60. the sound at idle is OK...rumbly but not overly.
However, anything over 2500 RPM or so and it is REALLY loud.
I set off, (on average) at least 2 ~3 car alarms of parked cars as I go
by them on the street!!! [and no, I am not clipping them, thank you
very much :) ]
As to performance, I really can't tell you.... I am a recent (2 month)
Corrado owner, and got the car with a stock system (original) full of
many holes. Suffice it to say that the Autotech system is actually
quieter than what was on the car before. For comparison's sake, the
Autotech system on the C is louder than the Techtonics system I had on
my '85 Jetta GLi....
hope this helps!
Yosh
Yoshiki Hakutani
hakutani@mail.nyquist.com
'71 Karmann Ghia Convertible, '88 Jetta GLi 16v, '90 Corrado G60
(who just finished really hacking up the metal frame of a pair of
Blau 4x6"s to get them to fit in the stock rear shock tower locations!)
nothing like a Dremel with lots of bits and attachments :)
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Thu Jun 6 20:21 PDT 1996
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Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 20:03:13 -0500
From: Yoshiki Hakutani
Subject: Re: ND Borla exhaust /Autotech 304 Stainless system
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<31B568CE.79D3@mail.nyquist.com> <31B58BA2.1666@garage.att.com>
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Status: RO
One thing that has been bothering me over the last day:
re: my comments on my Autotech 304 Stainless system on my '90 G60
Aside from the noise factor, the fit and finish of the unit is superb.
Much cleaner welds than on the Techtonics stainless system on my Jetta
and the tip at the back end is a polished, stainless, beauty.
The system fit perfectly. The 1st time. with just me, the car on jack
stands, and a rubber mallet. The Techtonics took me 5 hours to get on
without rubbing and it still bangs around when I have people in the back
seat of the J. 4 people in the C and nary a scrape!
BTW, any ideas on how I can quiet down the sound a little? Today the
car alarm victims were a Blazer double parked on a street and a
new Supra parked on the street :) The owner of the Blazer ran out into
the street as his alarm went off shouting and gesturing - no doubt
thinking that I had clipped his vehicle. All this talk of the Borla has
me sort of regretting my recent (~ a month ago) purchase of the Autotech
unit.
Yosh
Yoshiki Hakutani
hakutani@mail.nyquist.com
'71 Karmann Ghia Convertible, '88 Jetta GLi 16v, '90 Corrado G60
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Fri Jun 7 09:58 PDT 1996
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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 09:53:35 -0700
From: "Edward John M. Thai"
Subject: Re: ND Borla exhaust /Autotech 304 Stainless system
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Status: RO
Vincent Shek wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried the Genie SS exhaust and Headers? They look really
> nice in the photos. They are rather expensive though. $750 for the
> exhaust(cat-back) and $999 for the header! Ouch!
>
EIP has reported some noteworthy, positive results from their tests
of the Genie exhaust stuff on Corrados...the pricing actually is
relatively reasonable considering the going rate for VR6 headers and SS
exhaust systems of European origin.
Compare the Genie's $999 to about $1500 for the Abt version which has
been reported to contribute very little hp gains and apparently causes
heat problems even with its heat-shield, furthermore a custom Abt SS
67mm cat-back system will set you back US$1,700+ for the privilege of
being as quiet as stock! Another option is Supersprint though I'm not
sure if they are available yet despite having been advertised by RPI for
quite some time now...
On the US domestic side, Darrell has just released a 2.5" cat-back SS
system featuring Borla mufflers for the VR6 which will receive a rave
review by James Sly in a forthcoming issue of EC - however, I've heard
rumours that this Techtonic exhaust's not necessarily as great as it's
cracked out to be...
The forthcoming ND SS system (w/Borla muffler) also looks promising
from their preliminary dyno measurements, and did make its presence
heard at Buttonwillow. Not sure of price, perhaps $450+ (Tim?).
A relatively inexpensive alternative is the Autotech SS version ($299
for from the mid-pipe back), and there's always Eurosport's aluminised
2.25" system for $275 (which is apparently quite loud).
Cheers,
Edward
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Tue Jul 23 08:44 PDT 1996
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