Transmission Lubrication ======================== File: tranny.lube Editor: Jan Vandenbrande Date: Aug 9, 1995 The reason why you are visiting this archive is probably because you are wondering: How can I improve my shifting? Why is my shift effort so hard when it's cold out? How can I prevent the 2nd gear crunch in the morning? Obviously, the above problems may be due to a number of reasons, but one of the solutions, or rather, ways to alleviate the problem, is to switch to synthetic gear oil! In fact, the advantages of synthetic gear oils are so overwhelming that it's almost a *must* if you have not switched as yet. This is what I wrote a while back in the FAQ, repeated here for clarity: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q:What transmission fluid should I use (manual cars)? Why is it important for racing? A:If you use a transverse engined car at a track for speed events (as opposed to a parking lot autocross), you may actually be in a corner long enough to slosh oil clean away from the pickup, with possible bad results (please don't ask how I know). The real solution is to get a baffled oil pan, but synthetic oils will do better than dino oils in this situation. As far as I know, most/all water cooled VW transmissions require gear fluid with an API rating of GL-4 (MIL-2105). The recommended GEAR viscosity hovers around 80W, 75W-80 or 75W-90 Note that 75W-80 GEAR oil is equivalent to 10W30 MOTOR oil, but it is NOT recommended to use motor oil in gear boxes, even though some Japanese cars do so any way (has to do with shear strength). GL-5 oil is made to lubricate gears (like in a differential) and may cause premature wear on brass synchros. NOTE that GL-5 is recommended for the *differential* on some AUTOMATIC VWs and on some manual transmissions. However most VW *Manual* transmissions need GL-4. Check your user manual or VW. Quality of the gear oil makes a HUGE difference in shifting. I have personally tried Castrol (HORRIBLE), SWEPCO (Better), VW gear oil (good, they now use a synthetic in all newer cars), Redline MTL (great!), Redline MT-90 (a bit notchier than MTL), and VW Synthetic (one of the best). Others seem happy with Mobil 1, Synthoil, Spectro, etc. How these oil affect transmission life is unknown to me. Note that MTL is rated 75W80, while their newer product MT90 has a rating of 75W90 which is the required viscosity of the newer 02A transmissions (however, yours truly liked MTL better in the 02As). VW synthetic transmission oil is great but expensive (US$20/liter). Most VW transmissions use somewhere around 2-2.5 liters of oil. Before you drain, make sure you have something to catch the oil (an old jumbo coffee can is perfect). Open the side fill hole first, because you'll have to fill it up to either the fill hole or BEYOND. You'll therefore either have a little bit leak out or 1/2 liter gush out. To drain (the rest), unscrew 17 mm allen plug at the bottom of transmission. To fill, either unscrew speedometer cable or use the fill hole on the side. Some VWs require the level of the oil to be just so that some drips out of the fill hole, others (some A2 Golfs/Jettas) require an additional 1/2 liter on top of that. That's why it's a good idea to catch the old stuff and check the fill hole first. Some use the speedometer cable hole to do the overfills if needed, other just jack up the car. However, do NOT USE THE TIMING HOLE. It'll ruin your clutch. TIP: Glue a small round magnet on the outside of the drain plug. They can be bought cheaply at electronics stores, and it will attract metal particles that may damage the transmission. Older VWs used to have magnetic drain plugs, but VW stopped using them for some reason. Some newer VW trannys now have this magnet BUILT in permanently. NOTE: You may not feel the effects of the new oil immediately. It seems to take 2-3 days before the full effect is there. Some have noted that only after 2 or 3 oil changes you really only feel the full potential NOTE: Contrary to VWs recommendations, tranny oil SHOULD be changed every 40-60 k miles. I did mine after 40k, and was surprised what a difference it made! Lots of glimmer in the oil...probably from all those mis-shifts! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- One of the industrie's favorite synthetic to use is Redline MTL or MT-90 for VWs. However, here are a couple of negative impressions, or different recommendations that Tim Hildabrand, owner of New Dimensions, clarifies: [NOTE: Some VW User's Manuals apparently do recommend GL- 5 in some transmissions, so check first! blu@cellar.org seems to be doing ok with Redline GL-5 after 100kmiles in his car. See also the note by Turbo Tim further on] [NOTE: Several recent postings blamed their transmission failure or seal failure on MTL, and claims that Redline recommends MT90 only for VWs. However, as far as we know, this may be have been a coincidence more than anything else! See also the note by Turbo Tim further on] and here is Tim's responce: From: turbotim@aol.com (TurboTim) Date: 4 Aug 1995 20:16:53 -0400 Reply-To: turbotim@aol.com (TurboTim) Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com References: Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Lines: 84 dans@ans.net (Dan Simoes) writes: >You may recall a thread a few months (years?) back about someone putting >in MTL and having the tranny seals leak. He called Redline and was told >that basically tough, MTL was wrong and MT90 was the correct application >for his car. I think his tranny ended up shot too. >>Quite possibly. MTL is wrong for VWs. >Now about 3-4 months later, I suddenly discovered my tranny was leaking, which >explains why 5th was having a hard time going in at times. I feared the >self-machining problem (86GLI, 150+miles) but to my delight it's only the >seals. [...] >Now I need oil... Called Redline and asked whether they thought MTL had >anything to do with the seals. So she looks it up and says 'oh no, MTL is >wrong for your car, need to use MT90' (!!!). I told her this whole story and >that I was calling to order more oil, but was uncomfortable with their >products. I asked if they'd be willing to send me some MT90 for free as a >replacement, and to my surprise, she called back and said yes. > >Moral of the story - do NOT use MTL in the VW trannys. If you've got it, >I would take it out asap. The same may apply to Audis as well. >>This is correct. MT90 is the juice you want, NOT MTL. >Of course, my seals could have leaked simply due to age, >but I find it a strange coincidence. If it turns out my tranny is >shot, I'm going to try to make them pay for it. >>Forget about it. Seals leak because seals leak. The difference between >>MT90 and MTL is in the additive package, because MTL has stuff in it that >>will attack your synchros over time, if I recall correctly. I hope I can clear up all this misinformation on this subject. The person who answers the phone at Redline is totally confused and we went thru all of this a few years back and they still are lost. You need to talk to a tecnical person at Redline to hopefully get the correct answer. Good luck as I spent a least a whole day getting to the bottom of this confusion. Here's the correct info. MTL and MT-90 are both the same GL-4 gearoil and the only difference is the weight. When VW brought out the 02A transmission (Corrado,Passat and VR6 models) they required a 75-90W oil so Redline made MT-90. Before that all transverse mounted VW's 020 transmissions required a 75W/80W GL-4 weight oil and MTL was and still is the one to use for those models. So if you own any transverse water-cooled manual trans models except the Corrado,Passat or VR6 models use the MTL. If you have a Corrado, Passat or VR6 model use MT-90. Now if you use either one in any of the above transmissions it will not hurt but to satisfy VW's specs Redline introduced MT-90. We (ND) have many customers who prefer the MTL in their Corrados because of the lighter weight. We have been using Redline gearoils for over 10 years and we build quite a few boxes. We use it in our service shop and in hundreds if not thousands of customers transaxles. Many of our customers are surprised at how much better their VW shifts after we service their trans with Redline. Because of the large amount of VW's we service(150-200 a month) if there was any problems related from Redline oils we would be the first to know. Most of the transmission failures are related to a few know VW defects, synco wear and gear breakage. Redline oils are well know by racers all over the US and used by many high performance service shops. New Dimensions is very careful about what we use in our workshop as we have to stand behind it. If a product fails we can loose major bucks because we offer a 1 year 12,000 mile warranty on all of our services. And with the labor rate at $70 an hour it gets very expensive to have comebacks. So I recommend Redline oils and for the VW transaxles it is one of the best. ** Turbotim ** ** Second Generation BBS ** Headquarters for Audi and H20 VW Owners ** (408) 980-8830 (2 lines) 24 hours -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are a list of people's experiences on transmission oils (in no particular order). ============================================================================ From: keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov (Larry Keys) Subject: Manual Transmission: Thanks for all the help Date: 14 Jul 92 13:24:28 GMT Hi Volks, Thanks for all of the responses to my query about replacing the transmission fluid in my manual gear box. Below is a summary of the details. I am not sure if the set-up is the same for all Golfs and Jetta's, but for my 1990 Jetta GLI 2.0 16v... There are two ports for access to the transmission fluid, actually three if you include the speedometer cable entry. If you turn your steering wheel to the left as far as it can go you'll see one of the ports on the transmission case inside the drivers side wheel well. It's not necessary to lift the car to access this port. The other port is on the bottom of the of the transimssion, and to the rear it faces the ground. This port is also accessible with the steering wheel turned in the same direction. Both ports are plugged with "17mm" plugs. The plug on the bottom will allow you to completely drain the transmission. Bentley, says that the side port can be used for drain/fill and also as an indicator for proper fluid level on certain pre 1987 Golf and Jetta's. BTW, Bentley makes know mention of the "17mm" plug on the bottom of the transmission case. I spoke to a VW mechanic and he says the method that they use for filling is through the speedometer cable entry. Where i found my supplies: - 17mm hex wrench Sears price $8.99 on the back of the packages it says for VW transmissions. - 5.1 pints are needed (this is what the VW mechanic said) 2.0 qts is what Bently says - Redline MTL Al Smith Automotive Products 11223 York Rd. Suite F Cockeysville, Maryland 21030 (410) 584-7866 also Al Smith 3009 Lilac Ct. Edgewood, Maryland 21040 (410) 679-5203 They will ship anywhere in US, and unlike Redline in California they don't require any minimum order. They also carry AMSOIL. Red Line Synthetic Oil Corp. 3450 Pacheco Blvd. Martinez, CA 94553 (510) 228-7576 I haven't replaced the transmission fluid yet, but it doesn't even look like i'll need to jack the car up, but i could be wrong.:) BTW, I don't have any association with Al Smith, Red Line, Amsoil or Sears. I am just passing on information. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rcs@cbnews.cb.att.com (ronald.sorenson) Subject: Re: Valvoline synthetic Hypoid oil Date: 1 May 92 12:00:38 GMT In article <4077@airs.com> andrew@airs.com (Andrew Evans) writes: >ludeman@astroatc.UUCP (Weekend Pilot) writes: > >>the drain on my tranny leaves 1.5 of 2 total quarts in the case. I >>have visions of parking sideways on a *really* steep driveway.... > >That's the basic idea. Same problem with the Golf I did. Just jack >up the passenger's side of the car, that should get practically all of >it out. Better check your manual guys....there's two 17mm plugs in the trans case. One is on the end behind the LF tire, this is the FILL port, the other is on the bottom closer to the motor, This is the DRAIN. Measured mine when I changed to Red Line MTL (Great stuff!!) and just about 2 Qts came out. (let it drain > 1hr). Just be sure to get 2 Qts back in, early 5 speeds are hard to fill unless you jack up the drivers side, or use the speedometer cable entrance. ---- From: andrew@airs.com (Andrew Evans) Subject: Re: Valvoline synthetic Hypoid oil This isn't the answer you're looking for, but I highly suggest Red Line MTL. It's a synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant. You have to mail order it, and it runs $7.50 a quart plus shipping, but it's worth every penny and more. Put some in my friend's '90 Golf last weekend, and it made a world of difference. The shifter had been stiff and notchy once warmed up, now it's really smooth. Call (800) 555-1212 and ask for the number of Red Line in Martinez, CA. ---- From: christos@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) Subject: Horn sounds when signaling: SOLVED! Thanks to everybody who replied. All of you traced the problem to the steering column. Well... you were right! It turns out that the steering column on the Jetta has a switch assembly that contains all the switches. This assembly is held together by some screws. Well, one of them was loose. Upon tightening the screw everything was fine. The fortunate thing is that I got away without having to remove the steering wheel. All a 5-minute job. Since I am consuming bandwidth, let me give some experiences that may be useful to some: (car is an 84 VW Jetta) (1) Upon enthousiastic recomendations from the net, I changed my transmission oil to RedLine MTL (manual transmission). The stuff is good! It solved all my shifting problems during cold temperature, and made shifting much easier overall. It is not a cure for worn synchros, but it helps. Yes it's expensive (about $8 a quart), but I think it is worth it given the frequency transmission oil needs to be changed. (2) I changed the transmission linkage bushings. Big improvement. With the old ones, shifting was affected by weather conditions. Running over water puddles in the rain, lubricated the linkage for a while..:-). After it dried up shifting was harder than before! (1) I added Slick 50. I have not noticed any real difference. Put me on the skeptic list about this product. I hope it doesn't do any harm, but just in case I will change the oil sooner than 3000 miles. If anything good is to be done, it must have been done already. My (highly subjective) opinion though is that it doesn't worth it. From uunet!uunet!airs!andrew Mon Feb 24 09:12:11 PST 1992 Article: 3861 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: M&E Bulletin Board System 10/13/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!airs!andrew Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw,rec.autos.tech Subject: Re: Red Line products: Any experiences? Message-ID: <3565@airs.com> From: andrew@airs.com (Andrew Evans) Date: 20 Feb 92 23:21:48 GMT Sender: news@airs.com Followup-To: rec.autos.vw References: <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> Distribution: usa Lines: 13 Xref: mdcbbs rec.autos.vw:3861 rec.autos.tech:17478 christos@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) writes: > I am thinking of replacing the transmission oil in my 84 VW Jetta >with Red Line MTL. They claim that their oil provides better lubrication >and improved shifting at low temperatures. Anybody has done this? Does it >help? I haven't tried it yet, but it has been deemed "transmission oil of the gods" by the SAAB mailing list. SAABs are a little bit different because they use 10W-30 in the gearbox, not 80-90 gear oil, but I suspect that you would still find a substantial improvement. SAAB gearboxes are notoriously notchy, but Red Line MTL seems to smooth 'em out. From uunet!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sgi!fido!thk Mon Feb 24 09:12:56 PST 1992 Article: 3862 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: M&E Bulletin Board System 10/13/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sgi!fido!thk Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw,rec.autos.tech Subject: Re: Red Line products: Any experiences? Message-ID: From: thk@sgi.com (Tom Kong) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1992 23:46:50 GMT Sender: news@fido.asd.sgi.com (Usenet News Admin) References: <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 28 Xref: mdcbbs rec.autos.vw:3862 rec.autos.tech:17481 In article <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> christos@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) writes: > > I am thinking of replacing the transmission oil in my 84 VW Jetta >with Red Line MTL. They claim that their oil provides better lubrication >and improved shifting at low temperatures. Anybody has done this? Does it >help? > I am also interested in hearing about people's experiences with >the rest of their products, like motor oil, injector cleaners, etc. > Thanks, > >Christos. I'd recommend Red Line MTL, I've been using it for about a month and think it improves my shifting (over Red Line gear oil I had previously). I've tried the following in my GTI transmission, and I like them in the following order (for shifting in cold mornings): 1) Mobil 1, great stuff. Impossible to find in the bay area, hence I now use Red Line 2) Red Line MTL. 3) Red Line Gear Oil 75W90 4) VW original stuff. 5) Valvoline. (it gets very thick in winter). /tom From uunet!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!convex!news.utdallas.edu!tamsun!zeus.tamu.edu!jmm2948 Mon Feb 24 09:13:29 PST 1992 Article: 3864 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: M&E Bulletin Board System 10/13/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!convex!news.utdallas.edu!tamsun!zeus.tamu.edu!jmm2948 Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw,rec.autos.tech Subject: Re: Red Line products: Any experiences? Message-ID: <20FEB199218543248@zeus.tamu.edu> From: jmm2948@zeus.tamu.edu (Jeffrey M. Mayzurk) Date: 20 Feb 92 23:54:00 GMT Sender: usenet@tamsun.tamu.edu Followup-To: rec.autos.vw References: <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 24 Xref: mdcbbs rec.autos.vw:3864 rec.autos.tech:17485 In article <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu>, christos@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) writes... > > I am thinking of replacing the transmission oil in my 84 VW Jetta >with Red Line MTL. They claim that their oil provides better lubrication >and improved shifting at low temperatures. Anybody has done this? Does it >help? > I am also interested in hearing about people's experiences with >the rest of their products, like motor oil, injector cleaners, etc. I use Golden Motorguard (Spectro) synthetic gear oil in my Scirocco, and it has made a world of difference. I have brand new synchros (in fact, the whole gearbox was just rebuilt), and with conventional gear oil, it would grind in 1st/2nd on cold mornings. The synthetic oil has eliminated this problem completely, and improved shifting alltogether. I recommend it. -- Jeffrey M. Mayzurk jmm2948@zeus.tamu.edu From uunet!uunet!haven.umd.edu!purdue!yuma!ccncsu!conser Mon Feb 24 09:14:08 PST 1992 Article: 3866 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: M&E Bulletin Board System 10/13/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!haven.umd.edu!purdue!yuma!ccncsu!conser Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw,rec.autos.tech Subject: Re: Red Line products: Any experiences? Message-ID: <20396@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> From: conser@CS.ColoState.EDU (glenn eldon conser) Date: 20 Feb 92 22:49:50 GMT Reply-To: conser@handel.CS.Colostate.Edu (Glenn Conser) Sender: news@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU Followup-To: rec.autos.vw References: <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: Colorado State University Lines: 19 Xref: mdcbbs rec.autos.vw:3866 rec.autos.tech:17489 In article <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> christos@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) writes: > > I am thinking of replacing the transmission oil in my 84 VW Jetta >with Red Line MTL. They claim that their oil provides better lubrication >and improved shifting at low temperatures. Anybody has done this? Does it >help? I've used MTL in the Borg-Warner Super T-10 in my Trans Am for about two years now and have been pleased with it for no special reason. It does provide easy shifting when it gets real cold. -- See Ya' --Glenn "Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy." - Clint Eastwood The Outlaw Josey Wales From uunet!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!ogicse!das-news.harvard.edu! spdcc!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!ispd-newsserver!psinntp!balltown!welty Mon Feb 24 09:17:12 PST 1992 Article: 3872 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: M&E Bulletin Board System 10/13/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!ogicse!das-news.harvard.edu! spdcc!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!ispd-newsserver!psinntp!balltown!welty Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw,rec.autos.tech Subject: Re: Red Line products: Any experiences? Message-ID: <1992Feb21.010027.5804@cabot.balltown.cma.COM> From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) Date: 21 Feb 92 01:00:27 GMT References: <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies Article-I.D.: cabot.1992Feb21.010027.5804 Lines: 23 Xref: mdcbbs rec.autos.vw:3872 rec.autos.tech:17498 In article <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> christos@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) writes: > I am thinking of replacing the transmission oil in my 84 VW Jetta >with Red Line MTL. They claim that their oil provides better lubrication >and improved shifting at low temperatures. Anybody has done this? Does it >help? > I am also interested in hearing about people's experiences with >the rest of their products, like motor oil, injector cleaners, etc. Red Line is good stuff; one of the top synthetic products on the market (as are Amsoil and Spectro synthetics.) their products are highly regarded by racers, and by owners of some makes of european cars that perhaps have transmissions that aren't as robust as one might wish (saabs and alfas both benefit from running synthetic gear lubricants.) one important note: if you have a limited slip, you may need to tinker around to figure out what should go in your gearbox; some synthetics don't get on well with such differentials. cheers, richard -- richard welty 518-393-7228 welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com From uunet!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!rutgers!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v107qptd Mon Feb 24 09:18:46 PST 1992 Article: 3880 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: M&E Bulletin Board System 10/13/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!rutgers!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v107qptd Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: Red Line products: Any experiences? Message-ID: <1992Feb21.205630.18322@acsu.buffalo.edu> From: v107qptd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Eiji Iki) Date: 21 Feb 92 20:58:00 GMT Sender: usenet@acsu.buffalo.edu Followup-To: rec.autos.vw References: <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> <20FEB199218543248@zeus.tamu.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: University at Buffalo News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu Lines: 26 In article <20FEB199218543248@zeus.tamu.edu>, jmm2948@zeus.tamu.edu (Jeffrey M. Mayzurk) writes... >In article <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu>, christos@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) writes... >> >> I am thinking of replacing the transmission oil in my 84 VW Jetta >>with Red Line MTL. They claim that their oil provides better lubrication >>and improved shifting at low temperatures. Anybody has done this? Does it >>help? >> I am also interested in hearing about people's experiences with >>the rest of their products, like motor oil, injector cleaners, etc. > >I use Golden Motorguard (Spectro) synthetic gear oil in my Scirocco, and it >has made a world of difference. I have brand new synchros (in fact, the whole >gearbox was just rebuilt), and with conventional gear oil, it would grind >in 1st/2nd on cold mornings. The synthetic oil has eliminated this problem >completely, and improved shifting alltogether. > I've been using Mobil1 synthetic gearoil since last summer. it's great as long as the outside temp is above 20 degree F. it gets a bit thick below that. and it's really cheap. I bought a qt for $3.95. while redline costs more. I've heard from a former VW racing driver(showroom stock and firehawk) that VW factory team used Mobil1 "motoroil". I wonder if this is going to affect the trandmission's longevity. anyone know? From uunet!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!uncle!donlash Mon Feb 24 09:20:15 PST 1992 Article: 3886 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: M&E Bulletin Board System 10/13/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!uncle!donlash Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw,rec.autos.tech Subject: Re: Red Line products: Any experiences? Message-ID: <1992Feb21.231107.29126@uncle.uucp> From: donlash@uncle.uucp (Donald Lashomb) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1992 23:11:07 GMT References: <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: U.N.C.L.E. Lines: 24 Xref: mdcbbs rec.autos.vw:3886 rec.autos.tech:17538 In article <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> christos@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) writes: > I am thinking of replacing the transmission oil in my 84 VW Jetta >with Red Line MTL. They claim that their oil provides better lubrication >and improved shifting at low temperatures. Anybody has done this? Does it >help? I put RedLine MTL in the (very much used ~160,000 mi.) 4-speed Vette. I helped alot. Previously I had trouble shifting into 2nd (worn synchro), after the MTL it slides right in. I'm satisfied. > I am also interested in hearing about people's experiences with >the rest of their products, like motor oil, injector cleaners, etc. > Thanks, > >Christos. I also used RedLine's gear lube in the differential, and their 10W40 in the motor. I've read very good things about these products, but not enough personal experience to really comment about them. -Don donlash@uncle.UUCP ------------------- '68 Vette, 327/370hp From uunet!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!sail.uwaterloo.ca!ec333way Mon Feb 24 09:23:22 PST 1992 Article: 3895 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: M&E Bulletin Board System 10/13/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!sail.uwaterloo.ca!ec333way Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: Red Line prods./transaxle experiences Message-ID: <1992Feb23.051925.25951@watserv1.waterloo.edu> From: ec333way@sail.uwaterloo.ca (Winter92 BEACON ec333 account) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1992 05:19:25 GMT Sender: news@watserv1.waterloo.edu References: <1992Feb21.101329.18819@icf.hrb.com> Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 27 In article <1992Feb21.101329.18819@icf.hrb.com> aje@icf.hrb.com (Andrew J. Eckhardt, MS 323) writes: > I am curious as to what performnance you are having at low >temperatures. > My '84 Jetta (132,000 miles) with 5-Speed does not like to >go into 2nd gear when the transmission is cold. After a couple of >miles, everything works fine. It is filled with regular gear oil. >I have been thinking that this sticking is due to wear in the >synchronizer rings. > Is this what is happening to you? > I have been having similar experiences on my '84 GLI.. When it is REALLY cold, say -20 degrees C (ok, at least quite cold.. we do get quite a few days colder than that), sometimes my transmission seems to 'stick' in place.. I can shift gears when the car is OFF as if I was holding the clutch down. When I start the car, if I try to shift into a gear, it's as if I wasn't using the clutch (ie it grinds). On the other hand, this may have been due to the worn out clutch cable I had replaced 2 weeks ago (it hasn't happened since).. Can't say I'm up to 132k miles yet, but today I hit 211k km's (that would work out to 131.8k or just about 132k now that I think about it :-) Mattias Hembruch mghembruch@electrical.watstar.uwaterloo.ca or ec333way@sail.uwaterloo.ca -- Mattias Hembruch mghembruch@electrical.watstar.uwaterloo.ca or ec333way@sail.uwaterloo.ca From uunet!uunet!paladin.american.edu!gatech!prism!gt4911b Tue Feb 25 11:43:15 PST 1992 Article: 3921 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: Unigraphics Division (EDS) Bulletin Board 10/13/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!paladin.american.edu!gatech!prism!gt4911b Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw,rec.autos.tech Subject: Re: Red Line products: Any experiences? Message-ID: <49881@hydra.gatech.EDU> From: gt4911b@prism.gatech.EDU (The Mars) Date: 24 Feb 92 15:12:08 GMT Followup-To: rec.autos.vw References: <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Lines: 33 Xref: mdcbbs rec.autos.vw:3921 rec.autos.tech:17572 In article <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> christos@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) writes: > > I am thinking of replacing the transmission oil in my 84 VW Jetta >with Red Line MTL. They claim that their oil provides better lubrication >and improved shifting at low temperatures. Anybody has done this? Does it >help? I tried their synthetic manual transmission lube and it did in fact increase the smoothness of shifting in the gearbox. Supposedly since it is synthetic, it will not break down as readily as regular and since there is nothing to get the oil dirty in the gearbox, you can extend your change interval. Unfortunately, I had my transmission worked on when I had my clutch redone and they dumped the synthetic so I only had it in 4 or 5 months. They were however winter months and the cold weather shifting was greatly enhanced. I have heard nothing but good things about Red Line and they are supposedly well respected in some racing circles. Bill ================================================================================ MARS, WILLIAM SCOTT (The Mars) | "Don't screw with Harley riders!" Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA 30332 | "Home of the 1990 Nat'l Football Champions" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- INTERNET: gt4911b@prism.gatech.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You want to find an outlaw, you call an outlaw. You want to find a donut shop, you call the cops..." Leonard Smalls, in Raising Arizona From uunet!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!ncar!csn!yuma!lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu!seanr Wed Feb 26 12:51:49 PST 1992 Article: 3954 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: Unigraphics Division (EDS) Bulletin Board 10/13/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!ncar!csn!yuma!lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu!seanr Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: Red Line products: Any experiences? Message-ID: <1992Feb25.203140.38966@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu> From: seanr@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu (Sean Reifschneider) Date: 25 Feb 92 20:31:40 GMT References: <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> <49881@hydra.gatech.EDU> Distribution: usa Organization: Rocky Mountain High School, Fort Collins, CO Summary: Yes. It's great! Lines: 30 In article <49881@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt4911b@prism.gatech.EDU (The Mars) writes: >In article <1992Feb20.064609.23631@wuecl.wustl.edu> christos@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) writes: >> >> I am thinking of replacing the transmission oil in my 84 VW Jetta >>with Red Line MTL. They claim that their oil provides better lubrication >>and improved shifting at low temperatures. Anybody has done this? Does it >>help? > >I tried their synthetic manual transmission lube and it did in fact >increase the smoothness of shifting in the gearbox. Supposedly since it >is synthetic, it will not break down as readily as regular and since there >is nothing to get the oil dirty in the gearbox, you can extend your change >interval. Unfortunately, I had my transmission worked on when I had my >clutch redone and they dumped the synthetic so I only had it in 4 or 5 >months. They were however winter months and the cold weather shifting >was greatly enhanced. I had the MTL in my RX-7 changed a couple of years ago. When I got the car back, it wasn't shifting right. The synchros weren't working. I replaced the new MTL with the Red Line (as well as the diff), and it started shifting. Ever since then, I've been running Red Line in all my cars trans and diffs. The last couple of years we've had a few days where the temp was -5 to -15 F out. The car had no problem shifting. In my old Datsun, when the temp got that low, it wouldn't shift to second for quite a while. I recommend Red Line for transmissions and diffs, and use it. ;-) Sean From uunet!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnews!rcs Fri May 1 09:28:13 PDT 1992 Article: 5043 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: Unigraphics Division (EDS) News Server 14/03/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnews!rcs Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: Valvoline synthetic Hypoid oil Message-ID: <1992Apr30.120721.28104@cbnews.cb.att.com> From: rcs@cbnews.cb.att.com (ronald.sorenson) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1992 12:07:21 GMT References: <4066@airs.com> Distribution: usa Organization: AT&T Lines: 28 In article <4066@airs.com> andrew@airs.com (Andrew Evans) writes: >hvozda@dunharrow.endor.cs.psu.edu (Eric S Hvozda) writes: > >>I am looking for Valvoline's synthetic Hypoid oil. I know they make it, >>but in _very_ _limited_ quantities. Anyone lucky enough to know of a place near >>them that sells it? > >This isn't the answer you're looking for, but I highly suggest Red >Line MTL. It's a synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant. You have >to mail order it, and it runs $7.50 a quart plus shipping, but it's >worth every penny and more. Put some in my friend's '90 Golf last >weekend, and it made a world of difference. The shifter had been >stiff and notchy once warmed up, now it's really smooth. Call >(800) 555-1212 and ask for the number of Red Line in Martinez, CA. Amen, I just installed MTL in my Jetta's 5-speed (stiff and notchy in cold NH) and what a difference. Red Lines phone is 510-228-7576, they will send you a catalog. BTW you only need the MTL in a transmission or transaxel, in a hypoid gear rear Red Line gear oil is fine. The MTL has the correct coefficient of friction to allow synchros to work. A hint to early 5-speed owners, you can also fill the trans via the speedo cable entrance. Ron From uunet!uunet!seismo!darwin.sura.net!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!att!cbnews!rcs Mon May 4 08:51:00 PDT 1992 Article: 5064 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: Unigraphics Division (EDS) News Server 14/03/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!seismo!darwin.sura.net!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!att!cbnews!rcs Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: Valvoline synthetic Hypoid oil Message-ID: <1992May1.120038.6789@cbnews.cb.att.com> From: rcs@cbnews.cb.att.com (ronald.sorenson) Date: 1 May 92 12:00:38 GMT References: <4066@airs.com> <4078@astroatc.UUCP> <4077@airs.com> Distribution: usa Organization: AT&T Lines: 22 In article <4077@airs.com> andrew@airs.com (Andrew Evans) writes: >ludeman@astroatc.UUCP (Weekend Pilot) writes: > >>the drain on my tranny leaves 1.5 of 2 total quarts in the case. I >>have visions of parking sideways on a *really* steep driveway.... > >That's the basic idea. Same problem with the Golf I did. Just jack >up the passenger's side of the car, that should get practically all of >it out. Better check your manual guys....there's two 17mm plugs in the trans case. One is on the end behind the LF tire, this is the FILL port, the other is on the bottom closer to the motor, This is the DRAIN. Measured mine when I changed to Red Line MTL (Great stuff!!) and just about 2 Qts came out. (let it drain > 1hr). Just be sure to get 2 Qts back in, early 5 speeds are hard to fill unless you jack up the drivers side, or use the speedometer cable entrance. Ron Sorensen 85 Jetta is 7 years old today! From claris!szebra!bbs@DECWRL Fri May 15 17:55 PDT 1992 Date: Fri May 15 13:25:09 1992 From: claris!szebra!Ed.Hwang@DECWRL Subject: Re: Re: Re: your mail To: claris!jan%MDCBBS.COM. Message-Id: <9205152025.AA21807@Saigon.COM> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Status: RO Hi Jan. I would try the MTL in your manual transmission. It will probably help eliminate some of the "notchyness". Can't remember the technical details, but I first used it in my Toyota 4x4 trans to save the gears and synchros (a weak 5th gear and soft synchs are known problems with Toy trucks). I also use it in my RX-7 to reduce the "notchy" feel. Although, it doesn't completely eliminate it, the gears slide in easier (no more mis-shifts). I use the gear oil in the limited slip diff to help reduce the rear end "whine". Haven't tried the NS, but plan to in the next few weeks at the races. The brochure does mention the NS will increase rear end noise (locking up the plates all the time I suppose). -Ed From: BBS::IN%"uunet!alexander.bbn.com!jjd" "James J Dempsey" 23-FEB-1991 06:34:17.36 To: ames!info-vw@decwrl CC: Subj: Redline MTL transimission fluid I just put Redline MTL Synthetic transmission fluid in my '86 Scirocco 16V (70K miles), and it is wonderful. Shifting is much smoother, shifting effort has been reduced by at least 50%, and the gearbox isn't stiff on cold mornings anymore. I highly recommend it. I paid $7.95/qt. Two quarts are used in my Scirocco. --Jim-- From: BBS::IN%"uunet!alexander.bbn.com!jjd" "James J Dempsey" 25-FEB-1991 11:37:31.57 To: "Dimitris E. Alexandreas" CC: ccicpg!cci632!rit!moscom!ur-valhalla!msirota@uunet, ames!info-vw@decwrl Subj: RE: Redline MTL transimission fluid >> From: "Dimitris E. Alexandreas" >> Message-Id: <910225085656.21e3109a@lampf.lanl.gov> >> Subject: RE: Redline MTL transimission fluid >> To: jjd@alexander.bbn.com >> X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"jjd@alexander.bbn.com" >> >> > To: info-vw@ames.arc.nasa.gov >> > Subject: Redline MTL transimission fluid >> > Date: Fri, 22 Feb 91 12:46:22 EST >> > From: James J Dempsey >> > >> > I just put Redline MTL Synthetic transmission fluid in my '86 Scirocco >> > 16V (70K miles), and it is wonderful. Shifting is much smoother, >> > shifting effort has been reduced by at least 50%, and the gearbox >> > isn't stiff on cold mornings anymore. >> >> Mark Sirota has talked about his experience with Redline gear oil >> mentioning that one negative point (probably the only bad one he >> experienced) was shifting into first gear when the car was cold: >> >> ... >> >> Did you experience any such problem with first grear? How low have the >> temperatures gotten there since you started using Redline? >> Could you please send your answer to the vw-info for the other fellows >> who will be interested in this, too? It has gotten down to the teens here since I switched. I haven't had any more trouble shifting into first when cold than I did before I switched to Redline, although I generally don't downshift into first very frequently without stopping, anyway. Mark's and my transmissions both had about 70K miles when we switched. --Jim-- From: BBS::IN%"decwrl!lll-winken!uwm!bbn!jaborn" "Justin A. Aborn" 26-MAR-1991 13:04:55.70 To: ames!info-vw@decwrl CC: Subj: Redline Gear Oil I put Redline MTL gear oil in my '83 Scirocco's 5 speed transmission last night. It is really nice! All shifting characteristics have improved. 1st gear engaged quite nicely this morning, and was down right wonderful after warm up. Redline Synthetic Oil Corp. Martinez, CA, 415-228-7576. They will ship. Justin From claris!szebra!bbs@DECWRL Fri May 15 11:14 PDT 1992 Date: Fri May 15 08:52:44 1992 From: claris!szebra!Ed.Hwang@DECWRL Subject: Re: Re: your mail To: claris!jan%MDCBBS.COM. Message-Id: <9205151552.AA19582@Saigon.COM> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Status: RO Mobil 1 is the only syn motor oil I'ved used. I've used it since 1982, when Mobil 1 was the only reasonable priced syn motor oil around. I probably wouldn't change brands unless Valvoline or some one else is priced cheaper. I also use Redline gear oils. I use the MTL (manual transmission), 75-90 gear oil, 90-140(?) gear oil, and the NS (non-slip) diff oil. Again, the only reason I use Redline is price and availability. Where have you seen the Castrol syn? I know people who use Redline, Neo, another brand which I can't think of, in their racing motor's. They swear by it, but it is too expensive for me (about double, $8 per qt and up). Hope this helps. -Ed From uunet!uunet!airs!andrew Wed Apr 29 09:09:42 PDT 1992 Article: 5002 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: Unigraphics Division (EDS) News Server 14/03/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!airs!andrew Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: Valvoline synthetic Hypoid oil Message-ID: <4066@airs.com> From: andrew@airs.com (Andrew Evans) Date: 28 Apr 92 19:12:48 GMT References: Organization: AIRS, Waltham, MA Lines: 13 hvozda@dunharrow.endor.cs.psu.edu (Eric S Hvozda) writes: >I am looking for Valvoline's synthetic Hypoid oil. I know they make it, >but in _very_ _limited_ quantities. Anyone lucky enough to know of a place near >them that sells it? This isn't the answer you're looking for, but I highly suggest Red Line MTL. It's a synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant. You have to mail order it, and it runs $7.50 a quart plus shipping, but it's worth every penny and more. Put some in my friend's '90 Golf last weekend, and it made a world of difference. The shifter had been stiff and notchy once warmed up, now it's really smooth. Call (800) 555-1212 and ask for the number of Red Line in Martinez, CA. Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Checking Xmission fluid level Summary: Expires: References: <1992Jun30.152117.21305%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: na Organization: M&E (Division of EDS), Cypress CA Keywords: To check for the correct gear fluid level on VWs, I know of two procedures: The first requires the level to be at the filler hole. So if you open that, you should only have a drop or two come out. (Scirocco A1, Corrado) The second requires the oil to be 1/2 liter ABOVE the filler hole: So when you open the filler plug, you'll have a whole bunch gulp out. When you refill, you fill it up to the level, and then add another 1/2 L through the speedometer hole. (GTIs -- at least for 85 & 86's). Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: VW transaxle gear oil Summary: Expires: References: <23JUN199215320829@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: M&E (Division of EDS), Cypress CA Keywords: In article <23JUN199215320829@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> aeporro@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Bob Porro) writes: >Lately, I've been reading alot in this newsgroup about replacing VW transaxle >gear oil with synthetic gear oil. One of my concerns is what is the API >rating of these synthetic oils? The reason I ask is that my maintence manuals >for my VW Rabbits specifically recommend only API GL-3 or GL-4 gear oil to >be used in these transaxles. GL-5 grade gear oils are not recommended for >use by VW. I notice that many retailers sell only GL-5 rated gear oil, and >usually I must specifically ask for the GL-3 or GL-4 oil. So what is the >net.wisdom on the use of GL-5 gear oil in VW transaxles? > >| Bob Porro || (The opinions expressed here are not | >| aeporro@venus.lerc.nasa.gov || necessarily those of the management ?\*!) | This is what I have gathered from literature & talking to mechanics. As far as I know, all water cooled VW Xmissions require gear fluid with an API rating of GL-4 (MIL-2105 if memory serves me right). The recommended GEAR viscosity hovers around 80W, 75W-80 or 75W-90 are ok... Note that 75W-80 GEAR oil is equivalent to 10W30 MOTOR oil, but it is NOT recommended to use motor oil in gear boxes, eventhough some japanese cars do so any way (has to do with shear strength). GL-5 oil is made to lubricate gears (like in a differential) and causes premature wear on VW synchros. DO NOT USE GL-5 OIL IN VWs. With the new models, VW finally recommends synthetic oils besides natural oils. Quality of the gear oil makes a HUGE difference in shifting. I have personally tried Castrol (HORRIBLE), SWEPCO (Better), VW gear oil (good, I suspect that they use a synthetic in some cars), and MTL (best so far). Others seem happy with M-1. How these oil affect the life of the xmission is unknow to me. Most VW Xmission use somewhere around 2 qrts of oil. To drain, unscrew 17 mm plug at the bottom of Xmission, to fill, either unsrew speedometer cable or fill hole. Usually, the level of the oil must be just so that some drips out of the fill hole. Jan Article 6613 of rec.autos.vw: Relay-Version: VMS News - V6.1 24/02/92 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com Path: mdcbbs!uunet!uunet!ogicse!qiclab!therose!postmaster Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: transmission oil Message-ID: <712324336.F00001@therose.pdx.com> From: Tom.Larson@f9.n347.z1.therose.pdx.com (Tom Larson) Date: 27 Jul 92 05:47:30 GMT Sender: postmaster@therose.pdx.com Article-I.D.: therose.712324336.F00001 Lines: 7 At about 100k on my 1983 GTI I decided to change the transmission oil. Sears sells the wrench for about $10 (17mm hex key). Techtonics sells the oil I used (Spectro 75-90W GL-1 synthetic). The oil that I drained out was an evil, viscous mess. The difference is very evident, it shifts and engages much more smoothly. I'd recommend this over conventional oils, but haven't heard anything about Redline except on this echo. Synthoil also makes a synthetic transmission oil. From: BBS::IN%"uunet!ee.rochester.edu!msirota" 24-JAN-1991 12:20:05.83 To: lampf.lanl.gov!DIMITRIS@uunet (Dimitris E. Alexandreas) CC: The Volkswagen Interest Group Subj: RE: transmission noisy when shifting from 1st to 2nd On Jan 24, 9:14am, Dimitris E. Alexandreas writes: > I have a 1987 VW GTI 16V with 55 K miles now, ... Here in Los > Alamos, New Mexico, since Christmas we have had quite a few nights with > temperatures as low as 0F, with the day highs into the upper 30s. ... > When I first start the car, ..., I do experience the same problem when > shifting from 1st to 2nd no matter how careful I am with the clutch. > > Mark Sirota posted some time ago that he switched to RedLine 75W-90 > synthetic gear oil and he is very happy with it about the easiness of > shifting etc, but I cannot remember whether, before changing the gear oil, > he had reported any difficulties which promptedd him to do the change. Yes and no. It was simply time, and I figured I'd give the Redline stuff a shot. One thing that I've disliked about the normal gear oil I've used the last couple of years was the feeling of the shifter when the car is cold and it's real cold out - like pulling a spoon through molasses. The Redline 75W-90 is infinitely better about that; it feels pretty normal even at 0F. It's also much, much, much easier to get the car into reverse when it's cold. However, on my hard-driven 70K mile transmission, the stuff doesn't doesn't provide enough shear force when cold to make the first gear synchro work. It's simply impossible to get the thing in first if the car is moving at all. Until the gear oil warms up, I have to come to a real, full stop at each stop sign in order to get into first. This was never the case with normal gear oil. So, I give the Redline 75W-90 synthetic gear oil a mixed review. Depends on what's important to you, I guess. Also remember that the stuff is about $7.00 per quart... Mark -- Mark Sirota - Department of Electrical Engineering University of Rochester, Rochester NY Internet: msirota@ee.rochester.edu UUCP: {decvax,garp,harvard,hombre,rutgers}!rochester!ur-valhalla!msirota From usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!umd5.umd.edu!usenet Thu Jul 1 08:31:10 PDT 1993 Article: 16879 of rec.autos.vw Path: usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!umd5.umd.edu!usenet From: Blake Sobiloff Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: GTI Tranny Problems[W] Date: 1 Jul 1993 13:56:55 GMT Organization: Lab for Automation Psychology Lines: 28 Distribution: na Message-ID: <20uqf7$9je@umd5.umd.edu> References: <20u0evINN79t@network.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bsospsyc151.umd.edu In article <20u0evINN79t@network.ucsd.edu> clif@gibbs.ucsd.edu (Cliff Liu) writes: >I have noticed that the problem is worst when the car is just started, >i.e. cold. What I am wondering is if switching to synthetic lube will >help, and if so, which brands I should look into. I had good luck with >Mobil 1 motor oil so I might go with their transmission oil. WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T USE MOBIL 1'S SYNTHETIC GEAR LUBE!!! Sorry, I feel better now. My dislike for the product has nothing to do with the lube itself, per se, it's just that it's not meant to be used in our trannys. It's a GL-5 grade lube with various sulfurs that could prematurely wear the soft copper that our synchros are made of. Also, it acutally eats the rubber gasket that seals the tranny (where the speedo cable runs) -- I went through three of these gaskets before figuring out it was the Mobil 1 I put in, not bad parts or mechanical ineptitude. So what do I recommend? IMHO, I'd use Redline's MTL synthetic. It's what I'm running, it does a very nice job, and many other people are ecstatic about it, too. YMMV, though... -Blake Sobiloff (sobiloff@lap.umd.edu) Laboratory for Automation Psychology Department of Psychology University of Maryland, College Park From lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!magnesium.club.cc.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!netnews.srv.cs.cmu.edu!pk16 Wed Sep 15 18:05:58 PDT 1993 Article: 20157 of rec.autos.vw Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!magnesium.club.cc.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!netnews.srv.cs.cmu.edu!pk16 From: pk16@frc.ri.cmu.edu (Paul Keller) Subject: BEWARE: Redline MTL (long) Message-ID: Sender: news@cs.cmu.edu (Usenet News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: mushroom.frc.ri.cmu.edu Reply-To: pk16@frc.ri.cmu.edu (Paul Keller) Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU Distribution: rec Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 14:14:55 GMT Lines: 71 Though I cannot prove this, I am about 95% certain that Redline MTL trashed my transmission. The event that clinched this suspicion was talking to someone else from the net that has the exact same problems that I do. If you don't want to read this whole article, the punchline is: Redline says they would *never* recommend using MTL in a VW, and it may cause you problems - you should use MT90. Here's my story: A year ago I put Redline MTL into my Rabbit tranny since my second gear synchros were crunching. It worked wonders, but did not prevent the car from being totaled in a 6 car pile up... So, I bought an '86 Jetta GL. Shortly after getting the car I changed the gearl oil to Redline MTL, based on my previous successful experience. Within days I noticed a little gear oil dripping out of the tranny. Within a week or so I started hearing this thrumming sound from the front right. The dealer I bought the car from replaced the front right wheel bearing free of charge - no change. Over the next couple weeks, as the sound got worse, I replaced: front left bearing, front right again, outer right CV joint, temporarily swapped all wheels/tires - no change. At this point I pulled my inner CVJs (replaced the left inner), and what's this? They are filled with gear oil. Out with the Redline, back in with the VW gear oil. 10K miles later, the thrum is so bad it rattles the cassette tapes inside the car (at the right resonance speed, anyway). When I jack the front end of the car up and spin the wheels up to about 40MPH the tranny sounds as if someone threw a golf ball in there. At this point I have put about $400.00 into diagnosing the problem and replacing parts that did not need to be replaced (its been that cheap only because 1 shop gave a discount because they coundn't fix the problem and I did a lot of the work myself). The car has been to 3 different shops, all of whom think the problem is the tranny. A while back I posted some stuff about this problem, and so a couple weeks ago someone contacts me again to see if I solved the problem. I browsed through my archives to see what this person had said before and this time it jumped out at me: he had the same problems starting shortly after changing to Redline, his inner CVJs were filled with gear oil, and the problem is slowly getting worse. At this point I called Redline. Here is the punchline: They said that at no time would they *EVER* reccommend that a VW owner (other than the Vanagon) use Redline MTL. They say its the wrong weight, and that they explicitly developed Redline MT90 for use in VWs. Therefore, they could do nothing to help me (except he offered to give me enough MT90 to fill up my replacement tranny - yeah, thanks). Now, I am *pretty* sure that prior to purchasing the MTL I called them and asked for a local distributor and which gear oil to use. I think I may have said something like, "MTL is the correct gear oil of a Jetta, right". However, that was a long time ago and perhaps it is just wishful thinking. Anyway, once I get a used tranny and put it in (provided that it turns out okay) we are talking about an $800-$1000 mistake. I keep thinking of the words, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Anyway, I hope my expense may save someone else pain, suffering and money. If you are convinced that I saved you money, feel free to right a check to the new transmission fund... -- Paul Keller paul.keller@frc.ri.cmu.edu Field Robotics Center Phone: (412) 268-6563 The Robotics Institute Fax: (412) 682-1793 Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213 From lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!gumby!calvin!ursa!ptong12 Tue Dec 21 08:57:52 PST 1993 Article: 24485 of rec.autos.vw Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!gumby!calvin!ursa!ptong12 From: ptong12@ursa.calvin.edu (Peter Tong) Subject: Re: Stiff Manual Trans Shifting Message-ID: Sender: news@calvin.edu (Netnews Punk) Nntp-Posting-Host: ursa Organization: Calvin College References: <1993Dec20.082234.19407@julian.uwo.ca> <1993Dec20.193939.14835@exu.ericsson.se> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:36:14 GMT Lines: 26 In article <1993Dec20.193939.14835@exu.ericsson.se> lmcchbi@LMC.Ericsson.SE writes: >I tried putting synth oil. Didn't really help. The prick who sold it to me said my GLi needed >2.5 L. So that's how much I poured in. Problem is quite a bit of the old oil remains in the tranny. >To make a long story short, there was too much oil in the tranny, the main shaft oil seal blew, >I now have oil on my clutch. My trusty authentic german VW mechanic says that the problem >might go away for good by bringing the oil level down (less pressure). So far so good (no more >oil spots). >He says the hard shifting is usually due to a worn or missaligned linkage. Sometimes shops will loosen >something on the linkage to get better access. They often forget to tighten it properly or >re-adjust it. Hard shifting can also be a sign of low oil levels. However, you would have noticed >the oil puddles under the car. Also, make sure your clutch is properly adjusted. Not sure what the >spec. is. >Good Luck, >Luc Bijeau >Ericsson Telecom I have a tip I also learned the hard way. Whatever you do don't make the mistake of putting Spectro 75w140 GL5 in your VW tranny. It works ok - but after a while I was having problems getting out of 3rd gear. I'd be driving along and all of a sudden I couldn't pull it out of 3rd! I changed to NAPA dino oil 80w90 and the problem ceased.... haven't had a problem since. I'm going to try either Redline MTL or Amsoils tranny lube for easier shifting when cold this winter. Pete T From lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!gumby!calvin!ursa!ptong12 Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 PST 1994 Article: 25623 of rec.autos.vw Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!gumby!calvin!ursa!ptong12 From: ptong12@ursa.calvin.edu (Peter Tong) Subject: Re: [W] Spectro speaks! Message-ID: Sender: news@calvin.edu (Netnews Punk) Nntp-Posting-Host: ursa Organization: Calvin College References: Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 22:42:17 GMT Lines: 52 In article Aaron David Jenkins writes: >Hi all.... > >I called Spectro Oil this morning about what "kind" of oil they >recommended for VW trannys: GL1 or GL5. Spectro said "GL5. But the only >difference between the two is that GL5 has 'extreme pressure additives' >needed for offset gearing. It also has a limited slip additive. So it's >just adding additional protection." You heard it here! > >The reason I called them: Rapid Parts sold me two quarts of GL5 which >arrived yesterday. Last night I was flipping thru the APS catalog, and >*they* sell GL1. > >I'm still trying to find a 11/16 threaded road coupler (Joel Mahoney) to >drain the transmission, but if anyone's interested I'll post my >impressions of it. It's around 0 degrees (F) here these days, so I >should be able to tell pretty quick if there's a cold weather >improvement. > >Aaron Do yourself a favor and don't use GL5. I used Spectro GL5 for a while in my FN tranny and while it was good oil I've been having some intermittent problems with my tranny ever since using it. To be frank, I'm not sure if its related to the oil - but the problem goes away when I change the oil. The problem is that sometimes on my 120k tranny when I really put torque through the box it will stick in 3rd and I can't pull it out unless I pull off the road, clutch depressed, and once I've stopped let the clutch out enough so that the engine almost stalls - then the stick will come out of 3rd. This is very very irritating. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that GL-5 is made for non offset geared trannys and that GL4 is the proper oil to use in the VW trannies (VWs and Audis are different in this way). Good things about the Spectro oil. It shifts well in cold weather. Seemed to give me excellent fuel economy. How much it contributed I don't know. Right now I'm temporarily running "normal" tranny oil and I can feel the difference between the two until the car is warmed up. Perhaps you should talk to Techtonics as to using GL4 vs. perhaps not using GL5. This is not meant to slam Spectro oils - just make sure you use the right type in your VW - thats all. I wonder if APS has chassis dyno'd any differences between the different tranny oils? Peter Tong '82 2.0 8V Cabby From lynx.unm.edu!jobone!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!mhoza Mon Apr 11 10:32:31 PDT 1994 Article: 29982 of rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!jobone!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!mhoza From: mhoza@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Hoza) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Redline MTL Leakage Date: 8 Apr 1994 21:27:48 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 22 Message-ID: <2o4i8k$4g5@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu I talked to Tim (technical advisor) @ Redline 1-800-624-7958 and asked him about leakage, especially in older transmissions. I think he made some valid points. Basically, here is what he had to say: Redline MTL will not harm new or used seals MTL will stay thiner and can leak more where leakage is already present. If you have weeping of fluid it may double in amount lost. He made the point that if Redline had attacked the axle seal which I needed to replace it should also have attacked the other seals in the transmission. Also, there is no problem with the replaced seal. He also said that MTL will clean better than regular gear lube and this, of course, could free up sludge and increase weeping or leakage around a poor seal. I encourage anybody to call and please post your question and the response given by Redline. Michael Hoza From cc.usu.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!mcshub!dofasco!usenet.dofasco.ca!jstulen Fri Oct 7 12:53:45 PDT 1994 Article: 21544 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1 08/24/93 VAX/VMS V1.5; site cc.usu.edu Path: cc.usu.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!mcshub!dofasco!usenet.dofasco.ca!jstulen Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: [w] Tranny fluid problems (AMSoil, Redline, etc) Message-ID: From: jstulen@dcm.dofasco.ca (James Stulen) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 12:44:20 References: <36sjp6$6ao@ritz.cec.wustl.edu> Organization: Dofasco Inc. Nntp-Posting-Host: mike_truckel.dofasco.ca X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev Final Beta #11] Lines: 38 In article <36sjp6$6ao@ritz.cec.wustl.edu> eg1@ritz.cec.wustl.edu (Elias Glavinas) writes: >Subject: [w] Tranny fluid problems (AMSoil, Redline, etc) >From: eg1@ritz.cec.wustl.edu (Elias Glavinas) >Date: 4 Oct 1994 17:08:38 -0500 >I have an 85 Scirocco. >About 5 months ago I put new oil in my transmission. After reading about all >the trouble people went through when they tried to put Redline MTL and it ate >through the seals, I decided to go with AMSoil, which people recommended as >one of the best available --if not the best-- and certain not to screw with >my seals. >Well, whaddayaknow, tranny oil is leaking pretty evidently (I would say about >20 drops overnight, enough to cause a fresh body of oil underneath the car >every morning). >My question is: is there a way out of this besides taking the car to a shop >and having the seals replaced (God knows how much that will cost, but at least >I plan to remove the axles myself before I take it in)? I know this might >probably be wishful thinking, but is it possible the leaking will stop or >subside if I switch to stock tranny oil? >If indeed I am forced to replace the seals, how easy would it be to do that >myself? Any special tools needed? >Anybody else experience this with AMSoil? >Thanks, > Elias > I have have put AMSoil Synthetic Oil in three GTIs and have never had a problem with seals/leakage. I know several others who have done the same without a problem in 83-89 GTI 8 and 16 Vs. I am dumbfounded that this could happen to you. You didn't plug up the vent or something while changing the oild did you? James From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Sep 21 08:59 PDT 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:08:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Szlabowicz Subject: MT 90... Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO I just changed over to MT-90 transaxle fluid on my 1990 G60. Wow, what a difference! Couln't believe how much easier it is now to shift! Two quarts is all it took (got it from ND aka tim.) It doesn't make the throws quicker/more solid, but the gears engage with less effort. Just thought that I'd share it with you. Next project is getting some more air to the Q-flow...and fixing the MFA vaccuum sensor (99.9mpg!) ... Mike 1990 G60 P-chip/Q-Flow/HoR lowering springs/BOGE turbogas/Neuspeed Stressbar/ Leistritz exhaust/ATS type10 wheels/AVS Intermediate 205 15ZR50/ running almost 100% synthetic (other than brake fluid :) mszlabow@newssun.med.miami.edu From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Sep 21 08:54 PDT 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:03:41 -0700 From: radog60@ix.netcom.com (Qui Le ) Subject: Re: MT 90... Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com.Hey.Mike Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199509201903.MAA00418@ix2.ix.netcom.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO I also changed to MT-90 this past weekend and noticed the difference the first time I took it out. I was told that it takes a while to see the full affect....i.e. by your next oil change or so. Yeah it's great....wish it would do something for the bad 1st gear syncro though..dream on. -Qui > >I just changed over to MT-90 transaxle fluid on my 1990 G60. >Wow, what a difference! Couln't believe how much easier it is now to >shift! Two quarts is all it took (got it from ND aka tim.) It doesn't >make the throws quicker/more solid, but the gears engage with less effort. >Just thought that I'd share it with you. > >Next project is getting some more air to the Q-flow...and fixing the MFA >vaccuum sensor (99.9mpg!) ... > >Mike >1990 G60 P-chip/Q-Flow/HoR lowering springs/BOGE turbogas/Neuspeed Stressbar/ > Leistritz exhaust/ATS type10 wheels/AVS Intermediate 205 15ZR50/ > running almost 100% synthetic (other than brake fluid :) >mszlabow@newssun.med.miami.edu > > From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jan 3 08:35 PST 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 09:38:30 +0100 From: graceb01@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu (brian gracek) Subject: Mobil1 Transmission Lube Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199601031526.HAA05748@desiree.teleport.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO This reply recently came to me from MOBIL oil. As you may read my question and thier answer is included. This may be of interest to some. >Question: I have recently purchased Mobil 1 Synthetic Manual >Transmission Lube, and I am wondering if I need worry about any leakage >of a "thinner" lube oil through the "old" seals. Also your lube is >GL-3, GL-4, GL-5 rated. Is this okay as VW recommends only GL-4 with >no "broad" spec lubes approved? > >Answer: Mobil 1 is fully compatible with the elastomeric materials >from which automotive seals and gaskets are made. In fact, Mobil 1 >meets the requirements of seal performance tests established by a >number of engine manufacturers. In vehicles that are in good >condition, there should not be any problems with compatibility. > >Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Lubricant is suitable for all automotive >applications where lubricants meeting API Service GL-3, GL-4, GL-5, >multipurpose or mild EP requirements are recommended. It should not be >used in automotive or semiautomatic transmissions requiring an engine >oil or automatic transmission fluid. > >If you have any additional questions, you may contact us at our E-mail >address: lubes@ffx.mobil.com or by phone at 1-800-ASKMOBIL. > >Thanks. > > From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Sat Jan 20 09:53 PST 1996 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 03:32:04 -0500 From: EIPTUNING@aol.com Subject: Trans. Fluid Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <960120033204_301083069@emout05.mail.aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO True, the factory installed Hypoid trans fluid is a semi synthetic. Compared to a synthetic like Amsoil, there is no camparison. Not only does Amsoil lubricate better but it keeps the internals of the trans. clean and like new. Crack open a trans that still has the factory fluid and you'll find a good bit of cooked fluid residue stuck to everything. Not the case with a trans. that has run Amsoil for some miles. Well enough of a plug for a company that doesn't even give me free floor protectors or pens, and isn't paying for this either!! ---------> RICH !! <---------- >Subj: Re: I'm getting one >Date: 96-01-19 19:06:35 EST >From: donsbach@fluid.mro.dec.com >I though the stock trans fluid VW used WAS synthetic? At least that's what >I remember reading in the owner's manual....