The R1b1b2a2g subclade (formerly R1b1c10), also known as R1b1b2a1b7 in Family Tree DNA, is defined by the marker U152 (also called S28) and its discovery was announced in 2005 by EthnoAncestry. Although sample sizes are relatively small, it appears to reach a maximum in Alpine Germany and Switzerland. Ethnoancestry's commercial and research branches have shown that U152 is found from Greece westward to the Bay of Biscay in France. It appears to follow the distribution of the La Tene Celtic peoples. The percentages here are much less than found in the Alps. It has yet to be found anywhere in Ireland or Spain. Northern Italy seems to be a meeting place for both U106 and U152. Like U106, U152's specifications were not initially officially published by EthnoAncestry against their previous assertions that data would be publicly published; but again the marker was subsequently identified independently by Sims et al (2007).

It has been proposed that the ancestor of this subclad, came up from one of the refugium's during the Last Glacial Maximum, most likely the Balkan refugium, although the Italian refugium is also possible. More on the earlier origins of the R1b Hapolgroup can be found at Wikipedia, and on the above mentions Le Tene Celtic connection at David Faux Resource Page.

Y-DNA DYS Values

The Fromhold test results are quite unique. On the 12-marker panel there are five others with exact matches. But on the 25-marker panel, with only four from the 12-marker test from above having done expanded testing, one has a 3-step mutation, while the remaining three are no closer than seven-step mutation, ruling them out as having a recent common ancestor. There were, however, from Family Tree DNA test reults of my 25-marker panel, there are three individuals with 2-step mutations over the 25-marker panel. One each from England, Germany and Slovokia. With a 3-step mutation, there are eight from the Britsh Isles and one each from Germany and Slovokia. I believe the high number of British Islaes and low number of Mainland Europe is a bias in testing, for a fewer number of test subjects with known ancestry from mainland Europe. As of this writing, there were over 26k test subjects with known background from the British Isles, and less then 4k with a known German background. It will be interesting to see the results as more people with known background from Germany, Slovakia, and other mainland European countries are tested.

One main question in this research, is when we would have had a common ancesotr with other test subjects. According to calculation from FamilyTreeDNA, the chance of having a common ancestor between us and someone with a two-step mutation on the 25-marker panel is not above 50% until we go back about 20 generations. It's not above 90% until roughly 29 generations in the past, and 95% roughly 34 generations ago. Johann Michael Fromhold was born in 1612, and I in 1959. A difference of 347 years and 11 generations, or an average of 31 years per generation. So 20 generations ago would be about 620 years, or the early 1300's. And 34 generations ago would be over a thousand years ago, or about the beginning of the 10th century (900AD). The actual connection could even be well farther back in time. These calculations take into account that it is known that we do not knowingly share a common ancestor within the last 15 generations. As has been mentioned, it is hopeful that there will be more people will be tested, with a broader test result base.

The interesting part of our earliest known Fromhold ancestor, is where he was located. Sachsen (Saxony), was not one of the places that the Hapolgroup R1b1b2h migrated to in large quuantities. Mostly, they were along the Danube and Rhine River systems, into France and into southern England. So the question is, how did Kasper Fromhold end up in Rochlitz in the 1500's? Part of the reason may have been due to the migration period of the 2nd century AD through the 6th century AD, of the Goths, Vandals, Alans, Suebi, Frisians and Franks, among other Germanic, Iranian and Slavic tribes. The migration may have been triggered by the incursions of the Huns, in turn connected to the Turkic migration in Central Asia, due to population pressures, or climate changes.

Then, in the late 7th or early 8th century, Vogtland was settled by Slavic Settlers who tribally belonged to the Sorbs. Vogtland is a region in Germany reaching across the German free states of Bavaria, Saxony and Thuringia and into the Czech Republic (north-western Bohemia). Just to the northeast of this region is Rochlitz. Large portions of the Vogtland, however, still were covered with pristine forests and were not settled before the High Middle Ages, especially until the period called Deutsche Ostsiedlung, known in English as the German Eastward Expansion. Those settlers arrived mainly in 11th and 12th centuries, ethnically being Slavic or German, coming from areas of traditionally older settlement like Franconia, Thuringia and Saxony. Since the above mentioned Sorbs do not generally have the R1b Haplogroup, I suspect that our ancestor migrated into this region at the end of this migration pattern.

Another interesting point to bring up is that Kasper was a craftsman (A baker by trade). So he was not a peasent farmer. His son was a scribe (In the local court?), grandson a Lutheran Minsister, and great-grandson a Coppersmith. It seems all were some sort of learned men. Unfortunately, even with the help of Peter Fromhold doing research in Germany, we have not been able to get back any farther than Kasper. It is possible that he himself was not from Rochlitz. Also, his grandson married a daughter whose father was a sculptor, but he was from Freiberg, which is east-southeast of Rochlitz.

In the future, it would be nice if we could get y-DNA testing on other Fromhold men, and also from those with the Frommhold, Frommholtz and Frommelt surnames. On a research compiled before WWII by a Fromhold descendent in The Netherlands, it was mentioned that the surname was originally spelled as Frommelt. But at this time we can not confirm this. Please remember that written records from pre-1600 are scarce. Also, surnames really didn't become the norm until after the 12th century, and in some parts of Europe, much later than that.

The immigration of the Fromhold family of Krautheim, Baden to the North American continent began in the early 1800’s of our family. The first to immigrate was Peter Fromhold, the ancestor of the Northern Kentucky/Cincinnati and Alabama Fromhold family. He arrived on the ship "Poland" at the port of New York, sailing from Havre, on 7 June, 1838. There was a Peter Fromhalt living in Vernon Twp, Crawford Co, Pennsylvania in 1840, and I suspect this was him. He was then found on the 1850 census in Campbell Co, Kentucky. On this census he was head of household with wife Mary and two oldest sons John and Martin.

On the same census of Campbell Co, Kentucky, living nearby, were his brothers Martin and Frank. Frank Fromhold is the line of the author. Also in this household is Mary E Fromhold, age 64, and this is their mother. Sometime after this census, she returned to Germany where she died in 1866. The brothers Martin and Frank arrived in New Orleans from Havre aboard the ship "Sea Lion" on 29 June 1846. With them was a sister, named Katherine. This Katherine Fromholt, may have been the one that married a Henry Shafer. There is records from New Orleans of them having two children born in 1851 and 1852, but I have not been able to find anything more on this family. There was a passport application for Martin Fromhold, of Campbell Co, Kentucky, requesting a passport to travel to Baden, filed 6 August, 1858. In this application, he states he was to accompany his mother to Europe.

The area in Campbell County, Kentucky that Peter Fromhold settled is near the community of Camp Springs. Although this location did at one time have a post office, it has not had one in years. The current Catholic Church, St Joseph, was built in the early 1860's, replacing a building made of logs. The church records of St Joseph has sacremental records of family members. The frm of Peter Fromhold was located on Upper Tug Road, according to Jack Jones, a great-grandson of the brother of Peter Fromhold, Franz Joseph Fromhold, who did resrearch in the late seventies and early eighties.

Other Fromhold immigrants from Krautheim include John Fromhold to Indianapolis; Primus Fromhold to Kansas City, and August Fromhold to Eastern Missouri. While August was here during he American Civil War, he was a Lieutenant in the 5th Missouri regiment, it is unknown when he arrived in America. He was an uncle to Primus Fromhold, who immigrated in 1866. John Fromhold arrived in 1872. Primus did have a brother, Maximilian Fromhold, that immigrated to America also, settling in Tarpon Springs, Florida where he died in 1933 unmarried (Or possibly widowed, with no heir). At this writting, I have 832 descendents, includng spouses, of Kasper Fromhold. Of theses, I have about 600 descendents of those that came to America.

Later in the 1800’s, there were Fromhold’s that arrived, settling on the Eastern Seaboard, Chicago, Iowa, and the west coast, but it is unclear how they are related to the Krautheim Fromhold family, if at all. There was also a Christian Fromhold that immigrted to Australia in the mid-1800's from the Germanic kingdom of Sachsen (Saxony).

Krautheim is located in the Jagst River valley, with earliest recorded known mention of the village being in the 11th century. However, archeological evidence shows habitation in the area from about 3,000 BC. The present castle ruin was begun in the late 12th century, with the new castle and tower being added later. The castle chapel has one of the best preserved floor mosaics from the middle ages in Germany. The village is located about a two hour drive east-southeast from Frankfurt.

Our first Fromhold ancestor to migrate to the Krauthem area was Johann Friedrich Fromhold, who was first mentioned in church records for his first marriage in 1673. It is known that he lived down river in Gomersdorf, and his occupation was that of a coppersmith. Most of his descendents in Krautheim were in some sort of craftsman occupations. The father of the three brothers that came to America, Joseph Anton Fromhold, was a linen weaver, and did live within the old village walls on to of the bluff overlooking the valley. His home, according from research done by Peter Fromhold of Pfedelbch, Germany, was located where the present church, St Maria Himmelfahrt, is presently located.

Johann Friedrich migrated to Krautheim, Baden, from the village of Hennersdorf, Sachsen. Hennersdorf is located south of Dresden about 22 miles. It is located in the Ore Mountain region, and is just north of the border with the Czech Republic. His father, Johann Michael Fromhold, was a Lutheran Minister in Hennersdorf. Johann Michael Fromhold was born in 1612 Rochlitz, Sachsen, and married Maria Losers, a daughter of Gottfreid Losers, a sculpter from Freiberg, Sachsen. The father of Johann Michael Fromhold was Johann George Fromhold, a scribe in Rochlitz. His father was Kasper Fromhold, a baker in Rochlitz.

Although the city of Rochlitz is first mentioend in 1336, the area had been settled as early as the 9th century, with a village forming around the original castle. The original castle has ben dated back to 995AD. Archeological evidence shows that the city itself had fortified walls by the 1300's. The city was under seige during hte thirty-year war in the 1600's. Richlitz is located 22 miles north of Chemitz, in the present German state of Sachsen(Saxony). The orginal Sachsen area comrised what is now northwestern Germany along the North Sea and southern Jutland. Eventually, the area extended southeast towards presnt day Czeck Republic. Sachsen-Anhalt and Lower Saxony are the present states in Germany that were once the larger area.

Of historical note, there was a Johann Fromhold, born in 1602 to Matthias Fromhld, an attorny, judge and mayor in the Polish city of Kürstin. He himself studied law, and was a politician and diplomat for the court of Brandeburg, until his death in 1652. As Privy Counsellor of the House of Brandenburg-Culmbac and Onolzbach, he was involved in writting the Treaty Of Westphalia in 1648, which helped end the thirty-year war. I do not know if there is a connection between this Fromhold family and ours.

There are still Fromhold family's living in the German state of Sachsen(Saxony) and throughout Germany. There are also descendents of our ancestor, Johann Friedrich Fromhold, still living in the area around Krautheim in the Hohenlohe District in the German state of Baden-Württemberg.